The primate of Scotland, Keith Cardinal O’Brien, today in the newspaper Scotland on Sunday, decried the attempts by the United States Senate to investigate the freeing of the Lockerbie bomber, Abdelbaset Ali al-Megrahi, a Libyan intelligence officer, who was convicted of the bombing on January 31, 2001, and sentenced to life imprisonment. On August 20, 2009 al-Megrahi was released by the Scottish government to Libya, ostensibly on the compassionate grounds that he was dying of prostate cancer.
The text of the Cardinal’s article may be read here.
His argument basically consists of allegations that America has a “Culture of Vengeance” since we have the death penalty, while the Scottish justice system embraces compassion as demonstrated by the freeing of the Lockerbie bomber.
There is no polite way to put this. The Cardinal’s article is rubbish from beginning to end.
1. There is very good evidence that compassion actually played no role in the freeing of the Lockerbie bomber, but rather that the Brits were concerned about the fate of a then upcoming oil contract between British Petroleum and the Libyan government. Read all about it here.
2. The Lockerbie bomber is alive and well, as opposed to his victims who remain dead. Last year Professor Karol Sikora, Dean of Medicine at Buckingham University, said the bomber had three months to live prior to his release. Now the bomber could survive another ten years or more according to Sikora. Read Sikora’s updated prognosis on the bomber here. Of course Professor Sikora was compensated for his opinion by the Libyan government. Three months was crucial since under Scottish law that represented the greatest life expectancy if a compassionate release was to be granted. Go here to read the details. Cardinal O’Brien can you say “scam” and “sucker”?
3. Travesties like the release of the Lockerbie bomber are of course the best argument for the death penalty. The man murders 270 men, women and children. He is sentenced to life imprisonment. He serves less than nine years, is released under suspicious circumstances and is now enjoying life in Libya. That the Cardinal fails to see that none of this has anything to do with either justice or compassion is bleakly funny in a very dark sort of way. That he condemns the US while praising the Scottish government in this matter is worthy of a Monty Python skit.
I see Cardinals Schonborn and Mahony have competition in being the most obnoxious prelates of the 21st century.
While I agree that the release on “compassionate grounds” was definitely suspect and I think that al-Megrahi got substantially less than justice would have required, I do have to take issue with one of your points, and ask a question in re: another.
I disagree with your point #3. If al-Megrahi had been executed, then his victims would still be dead. I don’t precisely see the specific moral argument to be made for killing this man in this case, nor do I see how this specific case can be extrapolated to make an argument in favor of capital punishment generally speaking.
Which brings me to my question. The only purpose I can see being served by executing al-Megrahi would be in service of precisely the sort of “Culture of Vengeance” that the Scottish primate accuses of pervading the U.S. justice system. Since you brought it up in your post, did you have a particular comment to that point? I’d say that, while it is more obvious in some places (e.g. Texas) than others, there is an argument to be made that our criminal justice system actually is focused inordinately on retributive “justice” and not on charitable justice – the latter being definable as a process of rehabilitating individuals to function in society, or at least to allow them to function away from the temptation to criminal behavior.
I only bring up the latter here for contrast, because I could see it being argued from a Catholic position, whereas I don’t see a lot from that vantage point to recommend retributive justice. I’d be interested in your thoughts.
The Cardinal gets the prize for being close to the right answer by the wrong reasoning process. My question regarding the investigation is why did they wait until AFTER the gulf oil spill. I am not saying the investigation is wrong or shouldn’t happen. But the timing is very suspicious.
“I disagree with your point #3. If al-Megrahi had been executed, then his victims would still be dead. I don’t precisely see the specific moral argument to be made for killing this man in this case, nor do I see how this specific case can be extrapolated to make an argument in favor of capital punishment generally speaking.”
When a particularly heinous crime is committed, the argument is often made that life imprisonment is an adequate substitute for the death penalty. This case graphically demonstrates that life imprisonment, at least in a European context, often does not mean life. Nine years for the 270 victims works out to slightly more than twelve days imprisonment per victim, about what someone in my county would get for a second driving while intoxicated conviction. This mocks any concept of justice.
I completely agree with the Cardinal. The American mentality of brutality, vengeance, and warmongering is out of sync with Catholic morality. It is quite questionable whether Americans who partake in these attitudes can be Catholics at all. Compassion and charity are more important than justice. The three theological virtues are love, faith, and hope, and justice is a result of love but not a virtue by itself (1 Cor 13:13). The sad fact about U.S. Catholicism is that there is no Catholic culture and practically no Catholic education. It is thoroughly Protestant. Thank God it has practically no influence on the Church Universal.
Thomas, are you saying that Scotland is now a Catholic nation with purely papist mores? Man, Knox must be rolling in his grave!
“Compassion and charity are more important than justice.”
What you actually had in regard to the release was greed, trickery and injustice. If that represents the Scottish interpretation of Catholic morality Thomas, you and the Cardinal are welcome to it.
I think the issue we’re having here, Mr. McClarey, is less with this particular situation and more with the universal principle you seem to be espousing. Don’t think I don’t get hot under the collar thinking how Libya basically got their guy out of jail in exchange for an oil contract. I know that’s not justice. However, I don’t think that the Cardinal is wrong vis-a-vis Americans generally. I wouldn’t give a fig, honestly, if it were Scots who died rather than Americans – I just wouldn’t feel emotionally connected. It would still offend my sense of justice, but my sense of justice doesn’t raise the same stink as my desire to get even. The latter I try to ignore at all times.
Is Card. O’Brien fundamentally wrong about why Scotland released al-Megrahi? I’m pretty sure the answer is yes. Is he right to say that we’re probably only making a stink because it was our people who died and we want him to “pay” for what he did? Fairly confident on another affirmative. Does this serve in any remote way as an argument in favor of the death penalty? Don’t quite see how, unless you’re approaching justice from a “we’ll make damn sure he gets what’s coming to him” perspective. Which really isn’t justice at all.
“I wouldn’t give a fig, honestly, if it were Scots who died rather than Americans – I just wouldn’t feel emotionally connected.”
There we differ. To me the nationality of 270 innocents being murdered by a terrorist really isn’t of importance as compared to the enormity of the crime, and the lack of adequate punishment for the person behind the murders.
As to your other point, the very essence of criminal justice is that the penalty be in proportion to the crime committed. Nine years for 270 murders is simply not commensurate with the offense. In civilized society people give up their right to private vengeance because they assume that the law will punish the guilty for the offense against them or their loved ones. This case makes a hollow mockery of that bargain.
Juniper,
Nice to see the West Virginian anarchist make another commando appearance.
I tend to agree that leaving religion and the Irish troubles out of Lockerbie discussions facilitates constructive debate!
Again, Mr. McClarey, I’m not particularly contesting that the punishment in this case was inadequate. I think it was. But I’m less concerned about the lack of comeuppance to al-Megrahi, and more concerned that it was so easy a capitulation for the UK to make.
Criminal justice, to my way of thinking, has as its object not the criminal per se, but society. The criminal is, of course, the proximate object, but not the fundamental one. Society must act on the lawbreaker in one of two ways: either (1) we confine him and attempt to rehabilitate him; or (2) whether due to the magnitude of the offense or the sociopathy of the offender, we keep him incarcerated for our collective protection. Clearly al-Megrahi falls into the latter class of offenders, and it is a grave miscarriage of justice that the government on whose soil the very crime was committed turned him loose for the benefit of possible oil contracts.
What I remain mildly alarmed by your statement that:
“Travesties like the release of the Lockerbie bomber are of course the best argument for the death penalty.”
That really is a vengeful and, I would even go so far as to say, an uncivilized outlook. In a day and age where we have the affluence that we have, I don’t think that there’s any but a handful of good reasons to resort to execution as a primary punishment – least of all based on the possibility that otherwise the offender may not get punished “enough.”
I still agree that the particular occasion for the Cardinal’s comments was…chosen poorly; however, I think that there is a kernel of rather unpleasant truth in the words.
Again with the Protestant bashing.
I expected so much more from the post-councilar “we are the world” ecumenicists of liberal Catholicism.
“That really is a vengeful and, I would even go so far as to say, an uncivilized outlook.”
Not at all. Both Church, the Catholic Church, and the State, almost all States, believed that the death penalty was an appropiate penalty under certain circumstances until the day before yesterday in historical terms. If putting someone to death is vengeful, I fail to see why locking someone up for the rest of his life is not. The papacy of course used to understand this, which is why the Vatican had the death penalty until 1969, not to mention the fact that while the popes ruled the papal states they ordered executions for capital crimes until the dissolution of the papal states in 1870.
“Who spills man’s blood, by man shall his blood be spilled. For man is made in God’s image.” Or, something to that effect. See Genesis.
State punishment, constrained by justice and law, is not vengeance.
Once upon a time, every sentient person knew that if he/she killed (also rape, armed robbery, etc.) another person, he was liable to hang. Things are so much better since mercy displaced justice. Are things better for murder victms? Oh, they’re already dead . . .
I would refer you to Daniel Moloney’s piece on mercy a few years back in First Things. It offers an understanding of mercy as not opposed to justice, but a refinement of justice – the adaptation of general rules of conduct to the particulars of each situation. IIRC, one point advanced by the author was that institutions run by fallible human beings were not notably reliable in the application of mercy.
A while back, Peter Kreeft offered some remarks on how what is called ‘compassion’ is a degenerate version of charity – charity shorn of some crucial elements. That would seem to apply here. We would rather our clergy advance the view of the Church and not the zeitgeist. We are disappointed about two-thirds of the time.
@ Mr. Hargrave:
I didn’t see any “liberal” Catholics laying about. As far as Protestants go, I don’t have much use for them.
@ Mr. McClarey:
I imagine the popes also had torture chambers at their disposal back in the day. I further imagine that they were put to use. Civilization and civilized sensibilities evolve. I don’t think that the fact that a thing used to be done is a particularly strong case for continuing to do that thing. By such logic, the rack would still be a valid form of information gathering.
DW,
“Imagine” is the operative word. How easy it must be to form opinions based on imagination rather than facts.
And re use for Protestants, just to be clear: I doubt that any reader of this blog cares who you have use for — and I doubt our Lord cares either.
Mike,
I don’t conceive of God being nonchalant, generally. A comment was made, and then responded to, which I’m pretty sure happens on blogs. Kind of like trolling, rather than actually engaging in argument.
To that point, “imagine” is not the operative word, in fact. The mental operation undertaken was more logical than that. Given that sundry popes of the medieval and Renaissance eras were far better temporal rulers than pontiffs – see, e.g., Julius II or any given Borgia – and given that the Papal States, as a secular entity, had the same interests and goals as any other European power, it does not require any noticeable stretching to the fabric of reality to infer that the Papal States would have used the same tools to further those interests and goals. That would include the torture of prisoners for information. Since such treatment had been the norm for centuries, if not millennia, I see no strong reason suggesting that the presence of Popes in the equation at this moment would change anything. I’m certainly open to evidence to the contrary.
I should again elaborate, as well, as I sense your sensibilities may have been rankled by the Prot comment: I see no reason to bring them to the party, because I see no purpose served by bringing incomplete truth to a place where the fullness of truth resides. Given the name of the blog, I anticipated that understanding having some commonality. I apologize if you do not share it, and if I caused you offense.
Cardinal O’Brien’s repeated references to capital punishment are particularly gamy red herrings and about the clumsiest sleight of hand I’ve seen in a while.
The senators aren’t demanding Megrahi be executed. Though that would have been a just punishment, given the crime. What they are *actually* demanding are answers as to why this remarkably hale terrorist received “compassionate” clemency when it is clear he is going to live for years. The Cardinal’s studious determination to avoid what looks, walks and quacks like a corrupt bargain is part of the problem.
And, really, Mr. Wingley–excoriating America for a Protestant mindset while defending Calvinist-bathed Scotland is…risible.
As near as I can tell, that is *the* problem.
“I didn’t see any “liberal” Catholics laying about.”
They know who they are.
“As far as Protestants go, I don’t have much use for them.”
Wonderful spirit of ecumenism there. This virulent anti-Protestant bigotry emanating from the Catholic left is amusing and sad at the same time.
I mean, you don’t have “much use” for them? What does that even mean? And here I thought people were ends, not means. Tsk tsk.
Mr. Hargrave,
Let me join you in pummeling this cadaverous filly.
Having had no recourse, at times, but to fulfill my canonical obligations in the dens of liberal Catholicism, I can claim some familiarity with their ways and means. I think they more resemble than despise Protestants. As far as anti-Protestantism, I take that to be wrapped up in the definition of “Catholicism,” at least insofar as the latter is the fullness of truth and the former is a repository of fragments deluded into the conviction that they are all. Full truth must be against half-truth, so I suppose to be orthodoxly Catholic one might have to be anti-Protestant. But I wouldn’t call that bigotry…just being right.
Hence, incidentally, why I do not have much use for Protestants qua Protestantism. I have seen nothing of value there that is not present in my own religion, whereas I have seen many things of no value being osmosed from them by liberal Catholicism – the adherents of which I similarly have little use for.
Der,
I made an important distinction between Protestants, and Protestantism, in this post:
https://the-american-catholic.com/2010/07/26/of-protestants-and-priorities/
It is one thing to oppose the ideas. No one is more opposed to the “Protestantization” of theology, the liturgy and aesthetics than myself.
It is another thing to insult and degrade actual people, many of whom are sincere in their desire for a spiritual life. To even find people who take seriously the existence of God and what it means for their lives, I think, is a blessing in today’s society, which is weighed down with materialism and consumerism.
A fair number of the Protestants I have met don’t even know what they’re missing in Catholicism. They are ripe for conversion, provided bigotry and pretension can be put aside.
What a despicable character the Cardinal is. He should be absolutely ashamed of himself as should be the people of Scotland. This is a mass murderer we are talking about!
Very interesting reading through the comments here. I thought I’d add my two cents, though I almost never comment.
The primary reason the death penalty should be allowed, at least according to the catechism, is for the protection of society: “If…[it] is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.” (CCC 2267)
This actually gives us a way to reconcile the practices of the past with renewed desire to limit the death penalty. We have more advanced means of insuring that those who commit heinous crimes do not escape. There has been much talk of “punishment”; I’m not sure why Catholics should be worried about this sort of thing, particularly when it will handled most effectively in the afterlife by a most qualified judge. When used in the negative sense it can also tempt one to thoughts of vengeance. There is, of course “punishment” in a positive sense: punishment which has as its aim rehabilitation and correction. The catechism speaks of this type: It “has the primary aim of redressing the disorder introduced by the offense” it can “assume the value of expiation”, and “it must contribute to the correction of the guilty party.” (2266)
Of course, in contrast to the Cardinal, I think it would actually be more compassionate to leave a mass murderer in prison. One who has committed such deeds needs to have a complete sense of the consequences of his actions, and life in prison could more effectively provide a context for and a desire for “expiation”.
In the pro-life sphere, I think it is very appropriate to advocate sparing the life of such men. Not so much because of a social sense of “compassion” (a concept which can be grossly misconstrued), but because we acknowledge that everyone has the right to life, and moreover, should be afforded ample opportunity for repentance and penitence.
I have a great respect for the work of the contributors at American Catholic, and I really appreciate the posts and the perspectives. Hope this contributes to the discussion. God bless.
Mr. Hargrave,
I can cop to the same experience, and I hope that my Protestant friends come to the realization of their situation and come back into the fold.
I should probably have thrown the “qua” in there from the get-go. Although bigotry might be a slightly strong choice of word. I’ll definitely confess to being biased, though.
You prove the cardinal right. Justice has nothing to do with the victims. What you talk of is revenge.
Der,
The initial comment, for clarification, was directed at a certain person who posts here under rotating identities, and who used to post for a certain blog that is well known for its undisguised contempt for Protestants and Americans in a constant game of “more-Catholic-than-thou” one-upsmanship.
I am tempted to introduce a cog in the wheel of this discussion… I find it strange that Catholics, who certainly do believe in the afterlife, are still arguing “a life for a life” in the case of murder. Sending a murderer to his or her death without getting a chance to repent does not seem Christian to me. And if the murderer does get a chance to repent, he or she will eventually get the reward we all hope for, eternal life. All we would be doing with the death penalty in this case would be to allow this person to get to this goal faster (even before us in time!) A better “punishment” would then seem to be holding this person in prison for the rest of his or her human life… Just a thought.
Though that seems to be part of the problem. The “compassion” that the Cardinal refers to releases a mass murderer from a life sentence. I’m not sure how much repentence one has when one if free to live as a hero in one’s home country.
“A better punishment would then seem to be holding this person in prison for the rest of his or her human life.”
But *that’s the problem*–he was set free to a hero’s welcome and a long life. Where is there a hint of justice in that?
Marthe Lepine,
It strikes me as utterly strange to take the approach of saying that life in prison is more of a punishment because it forces the criminal to remain in prison longer before receiving his eternal reward. Seriously?
Honestly, I think part of the problem is that many on the “compassion” side of this have come to believe only vaguely in the concept of life after death. From a traditional point of view, earthly punishment and eternal punishment are fully separate questions. From an earthly point of view, certain serious crimes simply merit death, at a basic retributive level. Nothing personal, not because it will make any feel better, not because the families of the victims will have “closure” or some such nonsesne, but simply because there is an imbalance that has been created and this is how it is to be righted in the earthly sense. One might exert mercy or clemency in certain circumstances, but this would clearly be a matter of setting aside the demands of justice, the demands of justice do not themselves change.
We, as Christians, have the duty to forgive and to help give someone facing capital punishment every opportunity to receive God’s forgiveness. What happens when an executed criminal faces God is, clearly, something between those two. It is not something for us to know, and indeed we may very much hope that each such person embraces God and recieves salvation.
However, in the last sixty years or so, most people have lost this balanced approach.
“From an earthly point of view, certain serious crimes simply merit death…”
But even the Pope is not that categorical… And I thought that we, as disciples of Christ, were supposed to be “in the world” but not “of the world”. Are really we supposed to be basing our judgment on “an earthly point of view”?
On the other hand, my arguments are not directly linked to the case at hand but to the principle surrounding capital punishment. It is certainly reasonable to say that the Lockerbie bomber should have remained incarcerated, both as punishment and as a way of ensuring he does not get involved in similar crimes, which is certainly not impossible. And other prisoners around the world have been kept in prison while dying of cancer.
And to come back to the possibility of repentance: It is unfortunate that the Lockerbie bomber has been freed for “business” reasons, but he may still meet opportunities for repentance. It is my understanding that God is tirelessly pursuing sinners to bring them to Himself (what is the expression? “the Hound of Heaven”?) and we will never know the real end of the story…
DarwinCatholic,
Although I very much respect your opinions, I’m afraid I too have to disagree with your line of thinking. (And my disagreement has next to nothing to do with “compassion”.)
When I read Evangelium Vitae (paragraph 67 deals with the death penalty), JPII makes it pretty clear that execution should be avoided if at all possible. Now, clearly there are exceptions, but the exceptions should only derive from practical considerations (eg., keeping society safe).
As I read it, punishment alone is not a valid reason to administer the death penalty.
Perhaps you have a different interpretation…?
“Mr. McClarey:
I imagine the popes also had torture chambers at their disposal back in the day. I further imagine that they were put to use. Civilization and civilized sensibilities evolve.”
Actually the popes did have official torturers and executioners. The name of the gentleman who performed this task for Pio Nono was Giovanni Battista Bugatti. He performed 516 executions for Pio Nono and his predecessors.
“Civilization and civilized sensibilities evolve.” Considering the bloody Twentieth Century, the bloodiest by far in human history, and also considering the 44,000,000 and counting unborn children put to death by legal abortion in this country, I will assume that comment was meant humorously.
Two wrongs do not make a right. Certainly, a very large part of the Twentieth Century evolution of civilization and civilized sensibilities was not positive. But abortions and bloodshed during that century do not justify maintaining capital punishment… Given that even the Pope now teaches that it has to be avoided if at all possible, I think that some of us, among Catholics and followers of Christ, would be well advised to seriously examine their positions on that matter. If they are not willing to seriously consider current Papal teachings in this matter and avoid arguing that, due to the fact that previous popes in previous centuries thought and acted differently, JP2’s teaching is only a matter of opinion and can be disregarded because “we know better”. Founders of groups that separated from the Church and are now called Protestants also did think that “they knew better”!
John,
I would agree with you that John Paul II pretty clearly thought that the death penalty should basically never be used in the modern world. A part of me would wish to contextualize that, given that he lived in a country which, through most of his adult life, far more often used the power of execution against innocent “polical criminals” than it did against actual offenders of any sort. However, contextualization is often the easy way out.
Frankly, one of the reasons I don’t discuss the topic of capital punishment often is that it seems to me that the recent statements of our popes have been pretty directly in tension with the rest of Church tradition. And as that troubles me greatly, I tend to think it best to not express my opinion overmuch and to allow time and the Holy Spirit to sort things out in ways better than are known to me.
That said, I think this tension in Church tradition is well summarized by the tension between the two paragraphs in the Catechism of the Catholic Church addressing the issue. On the one hand we have this:
That seems to me to be saying exactly what I expressed above. And then in the next paragraph we have this:
Here the purpose of secular punishment is no longer to redress the disorder caused by the offense, but rather to hold it in check for a while. Secular “justice” now serves not actually to punish, but simply to hold people in restraint until a threat has passed.
I don’t know how to resolve these, but it seems to me that to take only the latter and not the former is to have an unbalanced view of earthly justice, and one largely out of keeping with our history. Perhaps much of this is — being of a strongly conservative temperment — I find it next to impossible to believe that conditions now are substantially different from how they were in the past. It doesn’t seem to me that there is one justice for today and another for yesterday. Nor that we have really got much better at restraining people from committing crimes than we were in the past.
“paragraph 67 deals with the death penalty”
Whoops. The paragraph in question is actually 56, not 67.
Sorry.
DarwinCatholic,
I am afraid you may be confusing Tradition and tradition… I think that the Tradition would be indicating that the Pope has the authority to teach and guide his flock according to the needs of the times. In earlier centuries, many things were accepted that are considered questionable nowadays, an example would be slavery. Therefore, if the Church had a different attitude towards capital punishment in earlier times, there is no “rule” against a certain evolution in the Church teaching, but there seems to be a rule, even a tradition, towards doing our best to respect the Pope”s teachings, because such teachings most probably express the will of God for our present times.
Within the context of John Paul II’s formulation — I guess I’d say that I disagree as to the extent to which society can be protected from certain types of crimes without recourse to the death penalty, in part because I think that protecting society goes more widely that simpy, “Making sure that particular person is not practically able to kill someone else in the future.”
That said, this is not an issue that I’m passionate about in the US context. I think we use the death penalty so poorly, so late, and so inconsistently that there’s very little point, and certainly if there were some sort of principled trade-off available (“We’ll agree to restrictions on abortion if you’ll agree to abolishing the death penalty.”) I’d be happy to support such a compromise. I just get annoyed by some of the absolutist and a-historical rhetoric that gets rolled out by anti-death-penalty activists.
“But abortions and bloodshed during that century do not justify maintaining capital punishment… Given that even the Pope now teaches that it has to be avoided if at all possible, I think that some of us, among Catholics and followers of Christ, would be well advised to seriously examine their positions on that matter.”
Ah, but the predecessors of John Paul II, certainly up to Pius XII, had an opposite view of capital punishment as did Saint Paul. When Popes and Saints are in conflict, I would tread cautiously, especially when a novel papal teaching happens to coincide with a secular movement against capital punishment. That is a strong indication to me that perhaps what is being pronounced is not part of the eternal teaching of Christ, but perhaps the reaction of a pope to intellectual trends of his time. Popes make many pronouncements during their reigns, most of which end up being forgotten or ignored by future popes. A good example of this is The Syallabus of Errors of Pio Nono.
That is a strange argument. You mean to say that whenever the Pope happens to hear about some secular movement against something like capital punishment, and happens to express some teaching that gives it validity, we are allowed to think that his judgement – or his discernment supported by the Holy Spirit sent by Christ who said that He would be with His Church till the end of times – has been weakened?
Please allow me an editorial change:
…we are justified to think that his judgement…
DarwinCatholic,
Well said. I actually see it from your point of view very clearly.
It seems to me our late Holy Father had a confidence in modern technology and political good will that that I’m not so sure a lot of conservatives share. On the one hand, there is the issue of protection of society, on the other hand the issue of taking a life when it seems as though modern society has sufficient means of otherwise protecting itself. (read: advanced prison security)
Which brings up the interesting question (which I think Don alludes to in the article): Is practical security (bars, gates, fences) the only consideration here? I think even the strongest advocates of the death penalty might admit that there are problems with the justice system in our society. Could it be argued that the death penalty is necessary because our justice system is not perfect? I don’t know.
I do disagree, however, that even though “the punishment should fit the crime” that that punishment by necessity has to be the death penalty. I think this is the point which JPII makes most strongly. However, I do think that this topic can be validly debated from many angles.
On an unrelated note, I do enjoy this blog. I especially enjoy Don’s unique perspective on all things political/historical and DarwinCatholic’s cultural and philosophical perspectives.
Let’s continue to fight the good fight and remain united in our love for the Church and the faith!
“Let’s continue to fight the good fight and remain united in our love for the Church and the faith!”
Amen!
“That is a strong indication to me that perhaps what is being pronounced is not part of the eternal teaching of Christ, but perhaps the reaction of a pope to intellectual trends of his time.”
Boy, you’re a lot bolder than I am when interpreting papal documents.
Do you mean that there is a fundamental theological contradiction (death penalty as means of punishment vs. dp as strictly a means of protection)? Or simply that different popes see different ways of applying the same principles?
“You mean to say that whenever the Pope happens to hear about some secular movement against something like capital punishment, and happens to express some teaching that gives it validity, we are allowed to think that his judgement – or his discernment supported by the Holy Spirit sent by Christ who said that He would be with His Church till the end of times – has been weakened?”
When a Pope does an almost 180 on previous longstanding Church teaching, and the change happens to coincide with developments in the secular world, or be a reaction against developments in the secular world for that matter, it is proper I think to wonder if the Pope is giving us a valid new teaching or expressing a personal opinion. Of course, I assume that most popes must adhere to this belief, considering how many of them have ignored or reversed what previous popes taught. John Paul II did this more than most popes, but he was by no means unique in this regard. The Holy Spirit uses time to sort things out as Darwin observed earlier in this thread. That is why the Syllabus of Errors, or the papal condemnation of Magna Charta, or a thousand and one other items that could be named, are now historical curiosities rather than considered part of Church teaching. To some this fact might be considered disturbing. I do not find it so. The Church is a divine and human institution that proceeds through History with its many ups and downs. It does not surprise me that it can take a very long view to sort the wheat from the chaff, even in regard to Papal actions and teachings.
Just a minute, I had another thought. Did not St-Paul also instructed slaves to respect their masters and serve them as they would serve the Lord? But slavery was abolished in the US… This contradicts Paul, no?
Different popes have lived in different times with different sensibilities, and responded to them.
Some of the arguments I have read here about whether the Pope’s opinions do not always have to be accepted remind me too much of a time when I was much younger and Humanae Vitae was just published. Many people argued then that the Pope did not really understand the realities of having children in our times and that therefore his teaching about contraception was not absolutely binding. I even heard it during sessions organized by my parish. Sure, this teaching was part of an Encyclical Letter, but I have been led, particularly after listening to Father Corapi’s explanations, that the Catechism of the Catholic Church also contained official teachings of the Church. Some paragraphs of that book bearing on capital punishment have been quoted in earlier posts…
Actually Saint Paul’s admonition regarding slaves to obey their masters is a good example of a very high authority indeed in the Church giving a teaching that coincides with the reality of his times. It is not part of the eternal teaching of Christ.