Meatless Fridays

I have been making an effort to abstain from meat on Fridays too, for the last couple years.

One of the main problems I see with suppressing meatless Fridays, was that it has not been adequately made known to people that they’re STILL SUPPOSED TO DO PENANCE on Fridays. It doesn’t have to be meat-related anymore, but it needs to be something.

Rather than dream up my own penance, I do the meat thing. It’s a great way to practice a little self-denial on a regular basis. Keeps me in practice, so next time Lent comes around I’m not caught completely flatfooted.

http://www.holytrinitypucc.org/
http://www.ucns-holyfamily.org/
http://www.holytransfiguration.org/

The Melkite Eparchy publishes a helpful calendar which specifies obligations in this regard (applicable in the Byzantine-rite).

I’d also like to say that given the demographics in the US and the fact that our culture is getting more and more secular by the day, that I think we really are in missionary territory here. I don’t think that came across as clearly as I wanted it to in my earlier post.

Agellius,

From what I’ve learned about some of the craziness that immediately followed VII, I can understand why some people are so vehemently against the OF. And I think there’s a sort-of nostalgia for the “good old days” amongst the more hardcore EF people I’ve come across that is fed by the perception that the OF is still the hippy masses of the past. So again, I understand the wariness. And I’m certainly not anti-EF. Like I said, I’m interested in wading into the Latin and such. But I do think that the NO can be extremely reverent, mysterious and wonderfully Christ centered. It’s also very distinctly Catholic without being alien. Maybe my parish is the exception or something, although I have attended an OF mass at the Immaculate Conception in Jacksonville that was every bit as wonderful as the one at my home parish, albeit in a much older building so the style sort-of felt different, if that makes sense.

My point is that I think the OF has a lot less to do with people leaving and a lack of vocations than the people themselves. Maybe it’s just anecdotal evidence, but my home parish is extremely full and growing. So is the parochial school run by our church. And that’s kind of surprising because the area in which I live has a very low population of young families. It’s mostly a retirement area. When I started coming to mass I was very surprised at how many younger people there were mixed in with the elderly folks and how many children were attending the religious Ed classes offered on Sunday mornings. That’s rare in my area, ever church I’ve attended was dying off, with the Catholic church being the only exception. I’ve literally been the only person with children at some congregations. But not at the local parish. So we’re obviously doing something right.

Anyway, the gist of what I’m getting at is that if the OF is done right, it isn’t banal or boring at all. Maybe I just got lucky and walked into a parish that does it properly when most others don’t. I dunno. I can say for certain that if I’d walked into mass that first time and seen some of the stuff I’ve seen described as happening right after VII, I would have walked back out. But I don’t know how well I would have fared in an EF mass, either. I’d like to say I would have been fine, but I don’t really know that for certain. I read something the other day that the Pope is looking at coming to some kind of compromise form of the mass; basically a meshing of the best elements of the two. I would definitely be interested to see how that works out.

The problem with the common Mass (NO, OF) is that you never know what someone is talking about when they mention it. For that matter you never know what you are going to get when you walk into a different parish, or if you have a different priest at yours. It is very innovative and way too fluid. Sometimes you have the confiteor, sometimes you don’t. Sometimes it is Eucharistic Prayer I, others it is II, III, or IV. Sometimes we pray the Hail Mary, which is beautiful, but probably misplaced and sometimes we pray through St. Michael after Mass and most of the times we don’t. This does not include all the unapproved shenanigans that go on when some priests encourage a social hour before Mass, or the sign of conviviality that continues through the Agnus Die, or the cacophony that occurs after Mass when you are merely trying to do a silly little thing like thank Jesus for His Sacrifice to save your soul.

If you are blessed to hear the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass celebrated properly in its ordinary form that is wonderful. My diocese has excellent priests, yet sometimes It doesn’t seem like I am at the Last Supper, Calvary or the Wedding Feast of the Lamb – I have to work very hard to put myself there. Sometimes it is easier. When I go out of town, I cry. I have seen some really frightening things. I have priests seem offended because I want to receive the Lord Jesus on my knees – I mean while kneeling, I receive Him on my tongue.

It gets confusing. The Novus Ordo can be beautiful when the priest loves the Sacrifice and fervently acts in persona Christi. Just look at the Mass celebrated on EWTN, it is quite beautiful and you always know what you are going to get.

This is what is so wonderful about the Tridintine Mass, it is totally mystical, beautiful and awesome, every time and you know what you are going to experience. It places the priest in a the proper position, at Mass, far more important than any of us who assist, not because of who he is, but because of what he has been empowered to do. At most NO (OF) Masses, the priest is merely the dude with the cookie and the lame homily.

What we need is a restored Mass and we have an opportunity for that with the corrected translation coming this Advent (boy is this going to be an interesting Advent/Christmas season). Bishops should ensure the translation is explained because it is not just that we will say different things, it is why we are saying them differently that matters. There is a HUGE difference between that which is unseen and that which is invisible. Will anyone notice? Why are people beating their breasts three times during the confiteor? Some so-called catholics are going to be so confused. I only wish the bishops will insist on proper rubrics. One can Hope. Are people still going to be raising their hands like they are at a Christian Rock concert when we pray the Pater Noster?

At Mass we are supposed to go through an examen, repent, Christmas, the Law, the Prophets, the public ministry of Christ, the entrance into Jerusalem, the Last Supper, the Passion, the Crucifixion, the Resurrection and Ascension. The Mass is a walk through the life of Christ. How is that possible when I have backed my car into the space preparing for my exit, walked in during the first reading, hung out with a bunch of Protestants who call themselves Catholics, taken my cookie and headed for the parking lot before the priest exited the sanctuary (if you can even identify it because it looks like a stage and there is no altar rail)? It is hardly possible and then you find the short, stripped down weekday Mass easier to pray and start wondering why God commands you to go on Sundays. Something has to change. Perhaps the NO could be reserved for converts, like a boot camp, until they get up to speed, but as it is how many Catholics actually go to Mass, let alone pray it when they are physically there?

Oh, angelluis, thanks for reminding everyone that although we may eat meat on Friday, we are not dispensed from an act of penance/mercy. The cool thing about meatless Fridays is that we are all doing the same thing together. I have usually practiced that as soon after I discovered that we still had to do some penance, lately I have had trouble with it due to some health concerns and my diet was altered, funny how sometimes absence can make the heart grow fonder because I do miss the discipline. We are a community of individuals and a properly celebrated Mass, the prayer and sacrifice of the Son to the Father, and meatless Fridays do keep us united as a community, rather than a social club that has some cool religious stuff we used to do.

Sorry, for rambling, I am just wondering what Mass I’m walking into tomorrow and it is stressing me out.

I’ve been trying to keep the meatless Friday penance for about 10 years now. I’m probably about 95% successful.

If I eat meat on a Friday, it’s not usually because I just want some meat; it’s usually because I’m invited to a dinner where I’d feel like I were insulting the host(ess) by not eating what he’s prepared. Because of those situations, I’m glad that I have the option of substituting another penance.

However, I find that most of the time I can avoid meat simply by explaining that I don’t eat meat on Fridays. This has led to some good conversations, and helped some Catholics to learn that we are all called to do some penance on Friday.

I live in South Louisiana, and I don’t like seafood at all (not even boiled crawfish). Believe me, when I say that I don’t eat meat, and I don’t eat seafood, I get strange looks.

I really like the idea that Catholics – heck, all Christians – perform a visible sign that shows visible unity in Christ. Giving up meat is a wonderful way of doing that.

American Knight,

Given the larger social context in which not even Catholics give up meat on Fridays, then I do think that it is uncharitable to refuse to eat meat when I’m a guest.

One of my former pastors, Fr. Randy Moreau (a truly holy priest, btw), drilled into us that we are called to some form of penance on Fridays. I count myself blessed that during an imporant formative age of my life I had a good pastor.

As for the Eastertide, I don’t have an answer.

I’m not “vehemently against the OF”. And my point was not that the OF itself was what caused the loss of vocations and reduced mass attendance. What I’m saying is that, first, the changes to the mass that resulted in the OF were not authorized by V2: V2 never said that mass should be entirely in the vernacular, and in fact said that Latin should be retained and that Gregorian chant should be given pride of place. Both of those things have been flatly violated in the vast majority of OF masses since V2.

And second, that the changes to the mass in violation of V2, were part-and-parcel of a vast, widespread change in attitude, wherein people came to believe that everything pre-V2 was up for grabs. Thus, again Latin and Gregorian chant were jettisoned in violation of V2, religious habits thrown off, doctrines of all kinds called into question, the existence of Hell doubted, papal teachings rejected or ignored (specifically Humane Vitae), and on and on. All of this stuff, together, resulted in massive reductions in vocations and mass attendance.

Again I’m saying it was a package, and the changes to the mass were an integral part of the package.

I’m not opposed in principle to the revisions to the mass, including use of the vernacular. I think if they had instituted the revisions carefully and gradually, strictly abiding by the decisions of the Council, they might have been much better accepted by the people and could have had a good long-term result. Instead changes were imposed willy-nilly, in a loose and rebellious manner, in keeping with the rebellious and anti-traditional attitude that prevailed at the time in *all* areas of the Church’s life, not just the mass.

I think it’s a mistake to believe that the these rebellious attitudes prevailed throughout the Church *except* in the area of the revisions to the mass; that somehow those making the mass revisions were sober and obedient, while everyone around them was going haywire. On the contrary, they were swept up in the same wave of hysteria that prevailed elsewhere, and it showed in the way masses were celebrated for decades afterward. It’s no coincidence that the “hippy” masses, as you call them, made their appearance at the same time as the officially approved mass revisions. Those who wanted the revisions also wanted, or at least welcomed, the hippy masses.

By the way the new mass translations coming out this Advent reveal yet another symptom of the over-reaching that went on when the new mass was concocted. The vernacular translations were loosey-goosey, and it’s taken this long to reign them in.

With all due to respect for all bishops, I am disappointed by the decision of the English bishops to reinstate mandatory Friday abstinence. While I do not normally eat meat on Friday, and frequently do other Friday penances as a devotion, I think that making meatless Fridays mandatory year-round is not a good idea. Even if one wishes to observe Friday abstinence as much as possible, occasionally there could be good reasons to make an exception (without having to worry about sin). There are at least several situations where I think that being required to abstain would be awkward or impractical (such as birthdays or holidays). For instance, it would seem excessively harsh to require Americans to abstain from meat on the 4th of July (when that day is Friday). Also, it may be impractical to abstain while traveling. Making it a sin to eat meat could also encourage scrupulosity. While I hope the US bishops encourage more suitable voluntary penances, I hope and pray they do not make Friday abstinence mandatory year-round.

Mandy – I’ve known a few converts over the years who’ve become involved in EF parishes. Don’t worry about understanding Latin. You don’t have to become a scholar to follow the Mass. A lot of parishes will have paper missalettes with the Latin and English texts.

But the Tridentine Mass isn’t about language. If I can say this without causing any fistfights, I think that participation in the Novus Ordo Mass in America is more similar to the pre-V2 culture of American Protestantism than to the pre-V2 culture of American Catholicism. (I can’t stress the word “American” strongly enough in that formulation.) The passive posture toward participation in the Old Mass is going to feel alien to you, just as the active posture feels alien to EF Catholics.

The Catholic Mass is remarkably different from Protestant services. I remember taking a friend to his first Mass; he was blown away by how trinitarian it was. That’s something that a cradle Catholic wouldn’t even have thought about. For converts who approach the Church out of belief (rather than marriage or practice), the difference between the Mass and a Protestant service will be obvious. From a cultural standpoint, however, well, let me put it like this: if you were an outer space alien looking into a Protestant church, a Novus Ordo, and a EF, you’d be confused as to which two were the most similar.

Art – It’s complicated, isn’t it? I think that the low-church Protestant culture has been most dominant in the US among Protestants, and it’s bled over into the way the Novus Ordo was implemented here. But there’s a high church tradition among Protestants here, too. And in other countries, at least from what I’ve heard, the implementation of the new Mass never caused friction. The example I hear most often is Poland, where apparently the vernacular Mass brought nothing but graces and the strengthening of national and religious confidence. It’s said that JPII didn’t really “get” the complaints of traditionalists at the beginning of his pontificate because Poland’s experience had been so positive.

It’s going to be interesting to see the impact that high-church Anglicans will have on Catholicism as they return. Again, in their experience, the high/low split doesn’t break the same as the orthodox/heretical split. So the returning Anglicans should be from the entire spectrum of liturgical traditions. But would an Anglican “rite” isolate the impact upon mainstream Catholicism? I dunno.

Anyway, I’ve kept the Friday abstinence for a while. I only rarely forget; sometimes I have to eat what’s put before me, and I try to offer up something else. It’s surprising how many restaurants still have Friday fish specials. I think if it became a Catholic rule again, you’d see a resurgence in white sauces and seafoods, and maybe even Caesar salads without chicken in them. It’d be accepted pretty quickly, I’d bet.

It meant something that many around you were doing the same thing. It was a phsical reminder in case you “forgot” what day it was. Even fast food places had the fish sandwich advertised during meatless Fridays. Everyone doing their own thing as led to the evaporation of the practice all together. I asked numerous Catholics I know this week what they give up on Friday and none had a clue what I was talking about. That speaks volumes. We should all in unity under the direction AND instruction from Rome and out US Bishops abstain once again from meat on Fridays, together. There always were and will be exceptions, sickness etc., but people who fight it for no other reason than THEY feel it obsolete do a great diservice to the reason for the practice in the first place. The fact remains, for all but a few, the unity and sacrifice of Friday sacrifice is gone in the Catholic world. Bring back the meatless Fridays and the majority will slowly but surely follow. It will unify many, many people.

“the beauty and grace of a Tupperware party in a gymnasium.”

Excellent!

I don’t want to ignore the substance of the post. I kind knew that Friday’s are meatless, but for the Bishop’s intervention. However, I have seen the dietary restrictions as a personal sacrifice, disconnected with the communal face of the Church. The post and comments suggest an alternative view: that public sacrifice witnesses to the Faith. I need to ruminate on this.

With regards to the ongoing debate about the NO, I think that the extreme actions of some tar the whole.

The is a huge difference between a different expression of the Mass that grows “organically” and one imposed on a parish by those with an agenda. The difference between the practice of the NO in a black or Hispanic or Hatian Catholic church in America and that of a “progressive” parish is one of intentionality and therein lies the sin.

When stationed in Norfolk, VA, I went to Mass with an entirely black congregation. The church had no kneelers attached to the pews, a decidedly black Jesus crucified above the altar, and the saints that were pictured throughout were chosen to connect with the black experience in America. The Mass was a full half hour longer, at least in part because the sign of peace was a virtual break in the Mass with everyone getting out of their pews and saying hello to people on the other side of the church. CCD was attended by everyone, not just children who went to public school but by those that went to Catholic schools too.

It certainly deviated from my experiences growing up in Philadelphia but it was “natural” and it “fit” the community. Vatican II merely made lawful what already existed there, it gave voice to the broader expression of faith already in existence but stifled by a romish impulse that validated only the culture of a people in decline (Italians) while diminishing the cultural identity of the vibrant Church in the Americas, Africa, and Asia. This is worlds apart from the forced progressivism of parishes taken over by preening and cocksure Baby-Boomers intent on turning the Church INTO something else.

At it’s best, the NO let’s faithful Catholic communities be who they already are, at it’s worst, it lets progressives hijack the faith and drive it off of a cliff.