Friday, March 29, AD 2024 2:14am

Well, I Certainly Think This Example of Lying is Immoral!

The Catholic blogosphere has been debating the morality of the Lila Rose sting operation against Worse Than Murder, Inc. a\k\a Planned Parenthood, with a diverse crop of conclusions ranging from Mark Shea and our own Joe Hargrave who are opposed to this as an example of lying to be condemned, to Dr. Peter Kreeft and myself who find absolutely nothing wrong with it.  This of course obscures the fact that most Catholics understand that deceit in most circumstances is to be condemned.

Now, in one of those examples of synchronicity regarding events which help establish to me that God has an infinite sense of humor, we have an example of lying that I think all Catholics would condemn.  Teachers have taken the lead in the protests against the public employees union legislation proposed by Wisconsin governor Scott Walker.  Thousands of teachers have called in sick to attend the rallies.  Doctors, as shown in the video above, have been passing out certificates to teachers, falsely indicating that they have examined the recipient of the certificate and that the teacher is ill.  To me lying to save innocent human life is one thing, lying to allow an employee to avoid work is quite another, even if one might be sympathetic to the employee on political grounds.

As to Geraldo Rivera, or as he was known when he started out his career, Jerry Rivers, in the above video, my overall opinion of him throughout his career is nicely summed up here.

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Jay
Jay
Sunday, February 20, AD 2011 7:29am

Yes, exactly.

I am sure that Mark Shea and the girls at Vox Nova who worked themselves up into enough lather to clean a battlefield tank with their 5,000 word posts on Lila Rose will rush to condemn this act of clear medical fraud by Wisconsin liberals.

Mack Hall
Mack Hall
Sunday, February 20, AD 2011 7:47am

I dunno — are those fellow really physicians, or are they SEIU hands who have stolen some white coats from their employers?

Of your logic and kindness do remember that only 15 states permit teachers to bargain collectively.

As for me, I am definitely for that famous “poor ol’ workin’ man” (when he’s working), and opposed to unions period. It will be a cold day in Buna, Texas when I walk out on my students.

Henry Karlson
Sunday, February 20, AD 2011 9:08am

Donald,

Yes, if the protesters are not sick, getting sick notes like that are wrong. They should just protest without trying to get such notes. And just as I have said that Lila Rose can be doing good and still sinning at the same time, the same would apply here.

And I’ve said this long before the current debate came up:

http://vox-nova.com/2009/07/01/so-one-can-commit-intrinsic-evils-in-war/

Foxfier
Sunday, February 20, AD 2011 9:17am

Well, that horrible leaching-off-the-mainstream-media blogosphere seems to be the only place where they tried to get some evidence– Gateway Pundit has video and links to copies of the notes.

It appears they have license numbers, so it’s fraud either way– misrepresentation as a medical doctor, or aiding in work-fraud.

bill bannon
bill bannon
Sunday, February 20, AD 2011 9:21am

It’s a never ending debate if Jerome and Aquinas were at odds about dissimulation:

Jerome, in his commentary on Galatians 2:11, “The example of Jehu, king of Israel, who slew the priest of Baal, pretending that he desired to worship idols, should teach us that dissimulation is useful and sometimes to be employed”.

Aquinas counters in the ST:
There is no need to excuse Jehu’s dissimulation from sin or lie, because he was a wicked man, since he departed not from the idolatry of Jeroboam (2 Kings 10:29-31).

But Aquinas allowed ambush in war and ambush is dissimulation…..you by omission are not announcing your whereabouts in order that you can attack from those whereabouts. You have lied about the safety of the location thru omission.

Jerome wins.
Judith is the more outstanding example. In chapter 12 of that book she lies repeatedly to Holofernes til she gets the opportunity to behead him in his tent in defense of her people who Holofernes intended to slaughter. What example is better vis a vis abortion and in Judith 16:5, Scripture praises her: ” But the Lord Almighty thwarted them, by a woman’s hand He confounded them.”

RL
RL
Sunday, February 20, AD 2011 9:25am

Don, you linked to Opus! Oh what memories. Funny how some things are forgotten. I don’t consider myself a comic strip type person, but there were two strips I enjoyed. I liked Bloom County though didn’t really lose any sleep when it was stopped. The other is what I would consider probably the best/funniest/most consistent humor ever published, The Far Side. The loss of that still stings. Fortunately, it was so good you can read the collection books and still get great laughs. 🙂

Jasper
Jasper
Sunday, February 20, AD 2011 11:39am

“This is a ‘burb where there is no shortage of Volvos with Obama/Biden and “Co-Exist” bumper stickers.”

LOL. I think I’m the one of few conservative Volvo drivers out there. I have a ‘GoArmy.com’ bumper sticker….

Phillip
Phillip
Sunday, February 20, AD 2011 12:24pm

“…Lila Rose can be doing good and still sinning at the same time, the same would apply here.”

Or the union can be acting contra the common good and lying to help accomplish it.

Sawman
Sawman
Sunday, February 20, AD 2011 12:56pm

I say fire them all Monday. Hire new, pass a law to never allow union representation for state workers of any kind. I have not only NO sympathy for the union thugs, but antipathy and animosity. Maybe they would appreciate their jobs more if they were able to taste the “benefits” of left-wing economics the way the construction industry has had to. Screw them.

T. Shaw
T. Shaw
Sunday, February 20, AD 2011 5:58pm

Is “Abortion is health care” an statement wherein lying is immoral?

Meanwhile, the Obama regime is quietly removing legal safeguards protecting Catholic health care workers from committing “health care” acts they undertstand to be murder.

In accordance with today’s Gospel, I’m loving liberals (America’s/my worst enemies) and praying for the (Fatima) conversion of Obama.

Zach
Monday, February 21, AD 2011 5:49am

I think Kreeft’s article won me over. But I’m not sure how to reconcile what he says with the Catechism.

Is it double effect?

Elaine Krewer
Admin
Monday, February 21, AD 2011 6:00am

Those who lie to save innocent lives or avert imminent, great evil, I am guessing that in MOST cases, they are simply doing the best they can and not acting out of malice. Whether they are subjectively guilty of sin would be questionable. We can debate the morality of lying to save lives all we want, but who among us really knows what he or she would do in a life or death situation. We are, after all, all sinners in need of God’s mercy.

It’s one thing to cut some slack to people who commit a sinful act out of desperation or out of ignorance of any alternative; it’s another thing entirely to decide that such acts are good or justified as a matter of policy, or in response to far lesser evils.

Blackadder
Monday, February 21, AD 2011 9:38am

In reference to the Catechism Zach, what I would like to know is why 2483 was modified in 1997

There is a law professor at Notre Dame, Bob Blakey, who spends the first class of every year trying to see what horrible things he can get his students to agree to do to further the greater good (he starts with white lies, then gradually works his way up to having people boil infants alive). When the original Catechism came out, Bob Blakey noted the “right to the truth” restriction, and cited it against a student who was arguing lying was always wrong. As it happened, one of the other students in the class was the daughter of the philosopher and theologian John Finnis. She told her Dad, who informed the Vatican that the phrasing of section 2483 was contrary to more than 1500 years of Church teaching on the matter, and so it was altered.

This is according to Prof. Blakey.

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