Once again, there’s a media frenzy. This time it’s been generated by Pope Francis who allegedly has spoken of the existence of a “gay lobby” in the Curia. Rumors had been circulating and, it was alledged, confirmed in a “secret” report Pope Benedict XVI prepared for his successor prior to the conclave. Some in the media also believed the “Gang of Eight” cardinals selected by Pope Francis would address the issue.
The details of what Pope Francis said “off the cuff” to the Conference of Latin American Religious (CLAR) on June 6 are well documented elsewhere, the most oft-cited being “In the Curia…there are holy people….[but also] a current of corruption.” According to notes taken at the meeting and released by some who were present concerning the secret report, the Pope said: “The ‘gay lobby’ is mentioned, and it is true, it is there….We need to see what we can do….”
All of this has become even more complicated with the Catholic News Agency (CNS) reporting today that CLAR officially states that the Pope’s assertion “cannot be attributed with certainty to the Holy Father” (italics added).
Hmmm…
As important as those statements rightly or wrongly attributed to Pope Francis and disclosed to the media may be, other statements—some of potentially greater significance—have not been as widely reported.
For example, La Stampa states that Pope Francis also told CLAR’s leaders to “keep moving forward” and not be “afraid to take risks by approaching the poor and new emerging figures across the continent.” That sounds fine. But, place that statement in its larger context:
Perhaps even a letter of the Congregation for the Doctrine (of the Faith) [CDF] will arrive for you, telling you that you said such or such thing….But do not worry. Explain whatever you have to explain, but move forward….Open the doors, do something there where life calls for it. I would rather have a Church that makes mistakes for doing something than one that gets sick for being closed up….
It takes time for the contours of a papacy to take shape. Early into this papacy, much has been made about the Pope’s first appearance at St. Peter’s Basilica and his humility. This “pastoral” Pope has washed feet, kissed babies, visited parishes, and heard confessions. This “Pope of the People” has eschewed living in the Apostolic Palace and is now chauffeured not in a Mercedes Benz but a Volkswagen.
The media loves all of this…and hopes for more, interpreting this Pope’s actions as symbolic of what many in the media long for: A Roman Catholic Church that is more open to and accepting of the forces of what some in the media define as “progress.”
In an attempt to understand more clearly the overall direction the Holy Father intends to steer the ship of the Church in today’s murky waters, The Motley Monk reads the daily homilies Pope Francis has been delivering at St. Marta’s as these are reported by ZENIT.
Overall, the Pope preaches in a style reminiscent of the early Church Fathers, dotting his homilies with folksy applications of scripture to this generation’s moral challenges. He invokes little, if any, “hierarchical” language. Instead, it’s much more “lateral.” There’s no insensitive reiteration of Church teaching “from on high,” but a sensitive response on the part of a pastor who knows his people—having heard their confessions—and speaking candidly about what is afflicting them and keeping them from the Kingdom of God.
In sum: Anecdotes that make the daily Scriptures strike home.
The problem: Others can apply those anecdotes in ways the Holy Father may not have intended.
For example, take the Pope’s statement “do something where life calls for it.” This statement has the potential to open the door to a host of unintended interpretations, especially when what has preceded it is “Explain [to CDF] whatever you have to explain, but move forward….”
Don’t overlook this particular statement because, The Motley Monk is sure, Pope Francis means it.
The question is: What precisely does the Pope mean?
In a homily to his congregation, a pastor can say “I would rather have a Church that makes mistakes for doing something than one that gets sick for being closed up….” The members of the congregation would understand exactly what is meant. Plus, that seems to be sound pastoral teaching.
But, the papacy differs from the local pastorate.
Yes, the pope is the Universal Pastor. Yet, he is also the “Rock,” charged personally by Christ with safeguarding Church teaching. It’s one thing for a local pastor to translate the Beatitudes into acts of compassion for those who live on the margins and to challenge the members of one’s congregation to err in favor of compassion rather than to dictate moral positions. It is an entirely different matter if a pope were to intimate—even in private—that bishops should err on the side of heresy and “Explain whatever you have to explain [to CDF], but move forward… (wink).”
Pope Francis certainly does not mean that.
But, some in the media would have him mean that, and are calling upon the Pope clarify precisely what he means. It’s a “lose-lose” proposition, one that will center upon the legitimacy of and the Pope’s stance vis-a-vis Church teaching.
During the 20th century and early into the 21st, the Holy Spirit has blessed the Church with extraordinarily good, if not saintly popes. The contours of this papacy have yet to be clearly defined. As Pope Francis learns to navigate the Church to confront directly this generation’s moral evils which the media may tout as “progress,” Catholics should pray that the Pope teach as Jesus did, “with authority” that stuns those today in his hearing who “are sick for being closed up” in their secular ideologies and unwilling to listen to the Truth, as the Church teaches it.
To read the article in LaStampa, click on the following link:
http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en/the-vatican/detail/articolo/gay-gay-gay-francesco-francis-francisco-25578/
To read the CNA account, click on the following link:
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/latin-american-religious-backtrack-on-pope-and-gay-lobby/
The more I hear about Pope Francis, the less hope I have.
And last but not least in my book, the alleged somewhat disparaging comments he made about having received a spiritual bouquet of 3,000 rosaries offered for him. He went on to tell his audience of his concern over people who “count” their rosaries to offer up….and why didn’t they just send him words telling him they will pray for him…..what is this, the 1940’s?, says he….These old disciplines, practices…..they’re just not done anymore.
Good Lord. After reading about his Rosary comments, in conjunction with his other concerning comments, I felt like I’d been kicked in the stomach.
[…] Hazard, Catholic Stand Oscar Romero and the “F4F” – Polycarpio, Super Martyrio Speaking Off the Cuff: What Does Pp. Francis Mean? – Motley Monk, TAC The Catholic Press & the Shakedown of the U.S. Church – Fr. G. J. […]
Surely, it amounts to no more than, “Don’t play it safe,” “Don’t err on the side of caution.”
Only think how much poorer the Church would be today, if men like Maurice Blondel, Joseph Maréchal, Marie-Dominique Chenu, Henri de Lubac, Yves Congar or Jean Daniélou had indulged in the sort of self-censorship so common in the aftermath of Lametabili and Pascendi. All of them fell under suspicion at one time or another and all of them were gloriously vindicated.
Well sorry to say this, but reciting the Rosary whilst at the same time not putting love into action, is fruitless and hypocritical. We are not Muslims. Muslims pray towards Mecca, and for them it’s enough in their Faith.
Our Faith is an active one. It looks outwards, not inwards.
So to insultingly say that Pope Francis leaves you feeling hopeless just shows that it is a self indulgent and self fulfilling religion you yearn for. Not the active and loving path that Our Lord showed us. Our Lord spent the majority of His active ministry teaching, healing, consoling, talking, correcting, guiding. Not sitting under an olive tree meditating.
Being Catholic is not ONLY how many rosaries you recite, how many masses you attend, how many kids you have. It’s loving thy neighbor. The world is crying out for love! Our beautiful Pope s trying to remind us of this. You CHOOSE to misunderstand his words and wisdom.
Too many Catholic are too busy praising their own holiness to see this. Wake up and stop being so self absorbed.
“Overall, the Pope preaches in a style reminiscent of the early Church Fathers.” I really don’t see that at all. Which early Church Father do you have in mind? Every one I have read was pretty clear in making his point; each was also willing to invoke authority when necessary. Certainly they differed in style and personality as well as in the specific problems they addressed, but we have no record of them making sloppy, off-the-cuff comments that left everyone more confused than they were to begin with. MAYBE that’s because what we have preserved are their letters, and letter-writing requires thought and planning.
I’m beginning to think that Pope Francis may be a good man, but he will be an ineffective and potentially counterproductive Pope if he keeps refusing to prepare his words carefully in advance.
@Elizabeth, I agree. I think the Body of Christ is big enough for those of us who are peaceful and pray. Big enough for each of us to contribute, each in his or her own way. Some will want to count their prayers, others will not. It’s not a sin to have the discipline to count.
I mean, why or when did anyone ever bother coming up with the idea of praying at specific hours of the day and night? Was that crazy? Is it sinful?
Anyhow, I was cheered the other day to read Pope Francis exhorting us to not waste food…
“We should all remember, however, that the food we throw away is as if stolen from the table of the poor, the hungry! I encourage everyone to reflect on the problem of thrown away and wasted food to identify ways and means that, by seriously addressing this issue, are a vehicle of solidarity and sharing with the needy.”
You know, this inspired me to make an apple crumble with apples that I had bought to eat fresh, but which tasted like cardboard. I was very tempted to throw them all away. Of course, then I had to “throw good food after bad” — I had to use butter, brown sugar, and oatmeal to make the crumble. But the results were tasty.
I was so happy to be able to find something that I could construe as personal moral instruction from the Pope to me, rather than a call for me to support greater government intervention in free markets.
Ez, the Pope’s teaching seems to bring out the beast, rather than the best, in you.
Whereas I find his words disheartening, you find them to justify abuse.
I know Muslims who pray and love God. Be careful how you judge those you do not know, be they Muslim, Catholic……
I was pleased that the pope called attention to the Pelagian heresy.
The Pelagian seeks to simplify the mystery of grace.
“Turn to the Lord,” says Hosea (14:2), but Jeremiah also says, “Turn thou me, and I shall be turned.” (31:18)
Likewise, in Ezekiel we read, “Make yourselves a new heart and a new spirit” (18:31), but also, “A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; (36:26)
“Continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling,” says St Paul, “for it is God who is producing in you both the desire and the ability to do what pleases him.” (Phil 2:12-13). The Pelagian is so taken up with the first that he forgets the second.
In second causes, the First Cause operates. As St Thomas says, ““Since the love of God is the cause of the goodness of things, no one would be better than another if God did not will a greater good to one than to another.” [Ia, q. 20, a. 3] This echoes St Paul, “For who distinguisheth thee? Or what hast thou that thou hast not received?” (I Cor. 4:7)
I feared a pontiff from Latin America.
As my wife is from Colombia, I have become a student of Latin American history (not an expert). As Latin America is a region which has suffered great poverty since, well, Spain and Portugal colonized it, the heresy of liberation theology – melding Catholic social teaching with Marxism – has run rampant throughout the region.
Pope Francis dismisses liberation theology and states that the Church is not to become an NGO – then in the next breath sounds like a proponent of both.
Pope Francis is dismissive of traditional Catholicism – hence the hysterical rantings of Rorate after his election. He tolerates it but he could end Summorum Pontificum with one document with his signature.
In my observations and experience, the Church in Latin America knows little about the centuries long conflict between the Church and Islam. John Paul, later in his pontificate, and Benedict knew well of this. It is said that Pope Francis was good friends with the present Archbishop (Patriarch de facto) of the Ukrainian Catholic church, but how much does Pope Francis know about relations with Orthodoxy? Given the last trip by a Vatican official in Ukraine, not much at all.
I personally dislike his approach to the Liturgy. I am unimpressed with his refusal to live in the Vatican apartment set aside for the Pope.
It is imperative for every Catholic to pray for the Holy Father. None of them want the job. Some of them have not been up to it.
Karl, do you find that you are not judgmental? Perhaps you need to re read your response to me regarding the Pope, and also regarding me.
In commenting on Muslims, and as an arabic Christian myself, I was not judging any particular individual but the muslim faith and core of the Muslim faith itself. I do not beleive that someone who is not Catholic cannot enter Heaven. Infact, I’m sure when God looks at each of our hearts He will find more non-Catholics that are worthy of His Mercy than so-called Catholics. And this humbles me, and encourages me to try and be better.
I find it puzzling why a Catholic would declare that the leader of his religion leaves him feeling “hopeless”…
I am continually amazed at the lack of loyalty amongst Catholics to the current Pope. And the CHOICE to misinterpret and misrepresent the Popes message. What abuse are you talking about? Did he condone abuse did he?
Karl, Pope Benedict is no longer our Pope. Period.
Pope Francis is our leader, therefore afford Him the same respect as you would Pope Benedict.
Having said this, Pope Francis is not God. Therefore, Pope Francis is not perfect. No Pope ever was. Not even PJPII, whom I adore.
But I trust Pope Francis leadership, and I don’t think that a minority few do because he is challenging their faith. I love that He washed the feet of a Muslim juvenile and that he told his preists to not turn away baptizing children of single mothers. I love his inclusiveness, whilst maintaining fidelity to the seat he occupies.
Contrary to your comment which I find extremely hurtful, Pope Francis does not bring out “the beast in me”. But it clearly irks me when fellow Catholics fail to show respect to our leaders.
If you can do better Karl, then maybe you should become part of the solution, rather than sitting on the sideline and criticizing. Negativity and “hopelessness” will get us nowhere.
“Our Faith is an active one. It looks outwards, not inwards.”
Ez, Catholicism is BOTH inward and outward. It is not an either/or, it is a both/and. I believe that Scripture is pretty definitive about developing the outward through cultivation of the inward.
I am personally encouraged and hopeful from the early days of Pope Francis. It is too easy to take “off-the-cuff” remarks, which are spoken within a given context, and then apply a broad meaning to those words. This often says more about the hearer than about the speaker.
TomD, I completely agree with your comment.
And to clarify, I did say our religion is “not ONLY how many rosaries you recite…” Prayer is obviously important in developing our relationship with God and discerning His Will daily.
it doesn’t end there.
I hope Pope Francis message to love others touches a chord with ALL of the faithful. Which is what I meant when I said our Faith looks outwards. We nurture our spirits in order to be useful to God in serving others.
We will see who the Pope is over his Pontificate. I hope there is a renewal of faith, I just do not see it coming from his approach.
Respect has different facets. Disagreement over tactics, is not disrespect. Welcoming, unrepentant, abusive sinners without correcting them, is failure in the long run; it is incredibly abusive to their victims in the immediate time. That seems to me to be Francis’ plan. By choosing to do so, those who do, choose to cooperate in evil. I was taught this was wrong. Perhaps, I was deceived.
From the catechism….
“Contracts are subject to commutative justice which regulates exchanges between persons and between institutions in accordance with a strict respect for their rights. Commutative justice obliges strictly; it requires safeguarding property rights, paying debts, and fulfilling obligations freely contracted. Without commutative justice, no other form of justice is possible.”
I see, especially the last line….
“WITHOUT COMMUTATIVE JUSTICE, NO OTHER FORM OF JUSTICE IS POSSIBLE.”
To this Catholic. this seems, to me, to be encouraged from Francis’ methods.
I have seen, for decades, the Catholic Church, though its practices which are in line with Francis’ thoughts, actively and support injustice, particularly regarding marriage. His methods seem far more like false charity, to me, than justice. This IS one of the cancers from Vatican II.
But, as you said, he is the Pope. I am sure. he will be held to account, as I am sure, will I.
This ‘we will wait and see’ anthem regarding Pope Francis is getting tired. What exactly are you waiting to see? Waiting for him to stuff up? He will. He is human. As you or I have stuffed up many times. And are you going to pounce on him and disregard him when he does. Why PJPII wasn’t perfect either nor Pope Benedict…
And this ‘renewal of Faith’- shouldn’t we all be renewing our Faith daily, regardless of who our Pope us? I didn’t realise Faith was so cardboard thin and fragile that it could be blown away with each new leader we have…
Karl if you make claims that Pope Francis welcomes unrepentant sinners and overlooks abuse, you should give solid examples. Washing the feet of a Muslim girl is not welcoming an unrepentant sinner- for you do not know her heart. We dont know what the Pope said to those juveniles off the record- im confident he didnt condone their sins, but told them not to sin, and by washing their feet he demonstrated that there is love for them in this world, and therefore Hope, to be better, to want Didnt you come in defense of Muslims and declared not to ‘judge’? shouldn’t our theory be put into action…
Also please give solid examples where Pope Francis failed to deal with abusive sinners.
Also give solid examples where he Pope Francis opposed commutitive justice. Reminding us to look after the poor and marginalised in our world is not opposed to our Faith. Jesus did this constantly.
I feel your claims represent many who STILL refuse to listen to his message and misinterpret his approach and regard him with mistrust. The Holy Father needs to be trusted as one would trust ones own father.
Change is hard, at any age. But one must accept change, especially when it is guided by Holy Spirit, which Pope Francis appointment of Pope was.
Spirits are to be tested, as I was taught. Because Francis was chosen Pope does not mean his methods are good. God, alone, knows His reasons for allowing Francis to be our shepherd.
It was my friend at work who, in the midst of our conversation that was job related, after I told him of the blessing, at times, he has been to me in view of his obvious proficiency and conduct, reminded me that no one in his memory, has so touched the life/lives of someone they have met, in a single encounter, as have I. He was describing his observations of how I interact with people, that he has seen over the years. His father was an Imam. Some of his cousins are Catholic.
If Francis addresses the injustices I have seen and continue to see, unabated, may his reign be long. If he does not, may he leave us quickly.
Karl, you still fail to give solid examples that justify your accusations as to why you hold Pope Francis with such mistrust and why he fills you with hopelessness.
I clearly follow your logic, the Holy Spirit clearly asks us to test Him when he gives us Peters successor. He definitely doesn’t ask us to trust that leader. God forbid, that would mean trusting the Holy Spirit! The Holy Spirit clearly wants to trick us, as is characteristic of the Holy Spirit.
In sure one who is a good persons doesn’t have to feel the need to exalt themselves as good. Your “exceptional Catholicism” and moral upstanding does not award you the right to pass “off the cuff” judgements at whim, that hold no grounding in solid fact. Still waiting for this evidence as to why Pope Francis is not to be trusted as our leader…
If you would like to provide these facts, please do so. Anytime.
Otherwise best to be on standby with your log book, to record The Popes errors, as he makes them.
I believe that far less depends on the personality of the pope than is commonly imagined.
From Sixtus V, who died in 1590, to Leo XIII, who was elected in 1878, we had a virtually unbroken succession of popes, who had risen through the ranks of the Vatican bureaucracy and who were, by habit, taste and training, administrators. It is not unfair to describe the result as one of assiduous mediocrity. Even in Catholic countries, they had the same impact and the same popular appeal, as the average Secretary-General of the United Nations or President of the World Bank. Pio Nono was popular because he was pitied.
Thirty popes and not a Leo or a Gregory, a Hildebrand or an Innocent III amongst them. The exception was Benedict XIV. He can fairly be ranked with Innocent IV as a canonist and with Leo X and Clement VII for his learning and he appears as a giant in that age of pygmies. However, he is remembered as Prospero Lambertini, the great canon lawyer, rather than for his pontificate.
Popes who leave a lasting legacy, like Leo XIII and St Pius X are very rare indeed; one would have to go back to St Pius V and Sixtus V to find popes of their calibre. Pius XII was a great man, but did his best work as Secretary of State. I leave later popes out of account, as we are too close up to judge their legacies.
Well you then are measuring the success and legacy of The Church like you measure a successful government. So you say that Christ put Peter as a successor so he can leave good stories in history books and political triumphs. Not to make sure Christ message keeps being told.
By measuring the Popes who allegedly left the “best” legacy you dont take into account the cultural context of the time. So it’s all relative, and doesn’t really matter which Popes personality or character you preferred or that a history book told you to prefer. It’s about the Church and its faithful and how many get to heaven.
It’s easy to intellectualise and miss the point. Pope Francis who isn’t well written like beloved Benedict XVI, isn’t worse because he isn’t as well written. His approach is grass roots. Which is necessary today. And as important as Benedict XVI all the same. AS IMPORTANT. And therefore because he is our Holy Father, we must listen like children. Not sit and dissect and criticise. Heaven is not a political game.
Ez
On the contrary, I believe that through those three centuries, the personality of the individuals who presided over the see of St Peter had very little impact on the life of the Church, one way or the other.
Christ is not divided and the Holy Spirit is not parcelled out. The Church is the Assembly of the People of God for the celebration of the sacred Mysteries, in which the local Church actually becomes and is revealed as the Body of Christ. The visible centre and head of the Eucharistic Assembly is the Bishop. It is he who offers the Eucharist, as an Icon of Christ, the Great High Priest. The Bishop not only embodies the local Church, but the Catholic Church, that is, the whole Church; for that which embodies Christ in His wholeness, and where one receives Christ in His wholeness, embodies the whole of the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. This is the teaching of St Ignatius of Antioch, a man who, as St Polycarp tells us, “spoke with John and with others who had seen the Lord.”
I was referring to your reference of Popes who achieved greatness. Their greatness or mediocrity does not determine Saints amongst us. Perhaps it’s interesting to see how many Saints came out of the Church during those mediocre times- I wouldn’t be surprised if many Saints came out of a weak Church community.
It’s true we have had some really bad Popes who caused much scandal in the history of the Church.
I suppose my issue is judging Pope Francis for imagined offences. And I do believe one can gage a sense of the goodness in a Bishop or Popes leadership by their character and their actions from when they were first ordained as Priests. Pope Francis has a great record.
So this negativity towards him when it’s unsubstantiated by any evidence is very concerning, coming from a section of the Catholic Community. It’s basically defaming his good character. And because of what?
And for it to come from within, when the Church in crisis needs more support than ever.
“Infact, I’m sure when God looks…He will find more non-Catholics that are worthy of His Mercy than so-called Catholics.”
EZ – why are you SURE that non-Catholics will deserve more of God’s mercy than so-called Catholics? Really – without any conditions?
Marietta, not without conditions. I didn’t say that!
Good people who do Gods will are not only Catholics. Read my comment properly, as a response to Karl’s comment.
The Catholic Church has the fullness of truth (this is what we believe), but not all will come to this fullness, does that mean God will disregard their good deeds and sincerity in looking for that truth and damn them…?
Otherwise only Catholics will enter heaven…? There are full countries that are Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim…what happens to them if they are good God-fearing and sincere….? Hell?
“I suppose my issue is judging Pope Francis for imagined offences..”
EZ – You sure I “imagined” them, are you?
1. Violating a rubric of the Holy Thursday Mass without first voiding it (He has the power to void it – he’s the Pope!) But as long as the rubric was intact, it was an offence to violate it. The “mandatum” – the washing of feet ritual – is symbolic of the “call to the priesthood”. No Muslim girl, as far as I know, has ever been called to the Catholic priesthood.
2. Atheists are also among the redeemed? This sent quite a few defenders of the Pope reeling. Even the Vatican press office had to issue a “clarification.” Tsk, tsk. No wonder Catholic foreign missions are in such a mess. There goes the Blood of the Martyrs.
3. About the spiritual bouquet of counted – two thousand + rosaries. He called those who offered them, “restorationists,” didn’t he? Pope Benedict (in the book “Ratzinger Report” says the word restorationists has two meanings, but Pope Francis obviously chose the not-so-good one.
Someone ought to tell the Pope that once upon a time, there was a little boy, also named Francisco, at Fatima. When his girl cousin asked Our Lady if he, too, would go to Heaven, the Blessed Mother said, “Yes – but Francisco will have to pray MANY MORE rosaries.” So Our Lady of Fatima is also a bead-counter, a “restorationist?” I wonder how Pope Francis likes that?
(Like an earlier poster, I, too, felt a kick in the stomach to read how the Pope received the spiritual bouquet from people who loved him, who graciously offered it to him, but whose bouquet he mocked.)
And why can’t we feel bad about this Pope? Do we have to wait until he’s out of office before we could feel bad about things he says? Why does everyone feel so free to criticize Pope Paul VI and not Pope Francis? Are the Italians being offensive in referring to the present Pope as “Pope Chatterbox?” Is it really disrespect not to be able to digest everything he says? He is Father and I love him as Pope and respect his office, but it does not mean I’ll have to spin until I’m dizzy everytime he opens his “bunganga”.
EZ – “not without conditions. I didn’t say that!”
No, you didn’t say that. But the Pope didn’t place any conditions, at the time he said it.
Marietta, what rubbish!
He didn’t ordain a Muslim girl. And he never will, ordain females or Muslims! They’ve been washing the feet of females in my Church for decades- even during the late JPII reign. Are you not outraged by that?
He didn’t denounce Our Lady or the Rosary (try quoting the Pope in context)!
Its about time hypocrites got a good serving- like the ones who recite the Rosary with such outward piety and do yearly pilgrimages to the Holy Land (both of which I love) then in the next breath treat others as inferior or with disregard…who gossip and slander and spread all sorts of twisted “truths”, Within their own Churches. I’ve encountered enough of these. They drive other well meaning Catholics away, because they dont fit into their Catholic club. I think the Pope called them “career Catholics”, you know the type,The Catholic that lives in his/her bubble. And Pope Francis encountered them too most probably.
Mother Theresa administered to the dying Hindu- should she have not bothered because they weren’t Catholic and wouldn’t have entered Heaven.
PJPII met with leaders of other Faiths CONSTANTLY- what for? They weren’t Catholic! And Bush who waged war, and Princess Diana who was an “adulteress” and pop idols etc etc etc…
Please link to his quote about Athiests. The WHOLE quote so we can read it IN CONTEXT.
Marietta, you must be reeling with anger because some Motorcyclists gave the Pope a leather jacket this week. Not motorcyclists on Harley Davidsons! And the disabled boy with the Messi football Jersey riding in his Pope Mobile. What Outrage!
Maybe you need to watch your bunganga abit. No?
Marietta
“Violating a rubric of the Holy Thursday Mass without first voiding it (He has the power to void it – he’s the Pope!)”
No, the pope is “legibus solutus,” he is not bound by any ecclesiastical law. This is the teaching of all the Canonists from Gratian onwards.
Michael,
I know. That’s why he should have rendered the Mandatum rubric invalid FIRST before violating it.
EZ. I didn’t say the Pope ordained the Muslim girl. I said the mandatum is symbolic of the call to the priesthood. A Muslim girl is hardly symbolic of those being called to the priesthood.
How did you know the ladies who made the spiritual bouquet of rosaries were hypocrites? The Pope said “don’t gossip,” yet he gossiped about these rosary ladies, even telling his guests, “that’s like in the 1940’s…now, don’t laugh!” but he did.
About his comments on atheists being redeemed by the Blood of Christ, look it up in the web yourself. While Catholics agree that the Blood of Christ is shed for all, faith is still necessary to be saved. As usual, this loose-lipped Pope did not qualify, and his words went all over. One protestant blog even gasped, “Sweet Jesus, Catholics have elected a hippy!” Fr. Lombardi’s press office went on overdrive damage-control to clarify what the chatterbox Pope said.
It might interest you to see what it’s in the news today. Here’s the link:
http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/a-pope-who-isn-t-criticized-fails-benedict-xvi-382362
“A pope who isn’t criticized fails: Benedict XVI
Vatican City: The future Pope Benedict XVI once had some prescient words about what it’s like to be pontiff: You’re not doing your job unless you’re being criticized.
The Vatican newspaper L’Osservatore Romano on Thursday published an unknown homily by then-Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, delivered Aug. 10, 1978, days after Pope Paul VI died.
Ratzinger eulogized Paul by saying he had accepted being pope as a sign of “faith in suffering.” Ratzinger said Paul had been criticized “sometimes in bad taste” for being both firm and flexible.
Ratzinger then said: “But a pope who isn’t being criticized today fails in his job.”
From Fr. Ray’s Blog:
http://marymagdalen.blogspot.com/
“Benedict taught the liturgy was “a given”, we read the black and did the red, Francis seems to be less precise about these things, his liturgy is “emancipated”, as he descibes it. Who cares if priests are vested properly? It is obviously “emancipated” to expect concelebrants to wear chasubles, or to expect street clothes the be covered by an amice if necessary, it is emancipated to put flowers on one the corner of an altar and some candles, or are the oil lamps, on the end, with an insignificant crucifix in the middle. It is emancipated to bow rather than genuflect to the tabernacle and after the elevations. It is unemancipated to prepare a homily carefully. It is unemancipated to expect servers to vest, it is emancipated to have the dressed in work uniforms and it is emancipated to have a Bishop take the role of a Deacon.
” I want to be emancipated too. I think I might introduce a few prayers at the beginning of the Ordinary Form Mass whilst the choir are singing the Introit. I’ve a few different but ancient Offertory prayers I would like to introduce and I feel inclined to genuflect before and after each elevation. Now would that be ’emancipated’ or just plain Pelagian. or what is the other word, “Restorationist”?
EZ “Marietta, you must be reeling with anger because some Motorcyclists gave the Pope a leather jacket this week. Not motorcyclists on Harley Davidsons! And the disabled boy with the Messi football Jersey riding in his Pope Mobile. What Outrage!
No, sorry, I’m not outraged. Are You? I never cared for motorcyclists or motorcycles, or leather jackets, and it’s not my business to see who buys or gives them away to whom. And it’s nice for the Pope to treat a disabled boy to a popemobile ride. I did not criticize the Popes for those actions, did I?
Getting personal at a straw woman you created will not win you debates.
Marietta, the last thing I want is to “win a debate”. I’m trying to defend the Pope. Calling him a “hippy” with a “fat mouth” is disgusting- reiterating these comments by others to prove a point is really vile. You are a Catholic. He is your leader.
Your hatred just causes division, as I STILL fail to see how the Popes “style” is damaging.
And to lament because the media loves Pope Francis and he isn’t being criticised “enough” for his leadership is a ridiculous litmus test. The media hated PJPII one minute and loved him the next- go figure!
And I’m sure the Protestants are a perfect benchmark- cause if they’re laughing at us, it surely means Pope Francis is a dud. I can’t help but chuckle at your reasoning. There is plenty of time for him to be hated by non-Catholics and the media if it makes you happier…
You answered none of my questions regarding non-Catholics being saved…
What came out of PJPII/Benedict era was hidden abuse that spread poison through the veins of the Church. It has today closed down dioceses, and destroyed communities. Under the leadership that you pine for. It will take decades to restore, but will still be remembered in shame in history. And I can think of other things that the past Popes did or failed to do that has caused much division today. Like how they concentrated on evangelising Africa and the East, and forgot the West. Europe is a lost cause today. PJPII was an inspirational Pope and Benedict intellect was astounding, but their leadership was flawed. I think it has something to do with them being humans. And I think Pope Francis is human too. Let that humble me and humble you and inspire us to ask God to pray for this Pope and support him.
Could you name some wonderful things that Pope Francis has done thus far? Or some wonderful qualities he possesses. Maybe how he seems to know how to relate to the ordinary person…? That would be a start.
The author of this blog chose the “benefit of the doubt” route. If You disagree with Pope francis do so resprctfully. You are choosing to cut him down, pounce on every word and deed. Stop it. It’s not right Marrietta. You drive people away if you try this approach within a family situation. What makes you think you aren’t driving other Catholics away within a Church community. Trust God selected this man as Pope for a reason.
Yes I found reference to Pope Francis talking about Athiests being saved and once again Marietta your conclusion is exaggerated and misunderstood.
Pope said Athiest can do good. And in doing good they will know the Truth and find God. That the Blood of Christ was shed for all.
You took it as being saved unconditionally, Pope Francis meant it as a path to know God.
St Paul even stated that all are redeemed by Christ death and resurrection. This is not a new concept. Pope Francis makes reference to it because it is not something that is emphasised by Catholics too often- cause you know “some” can get cozy in our shell and exclude the rest of mankind when it comes to salvation.
On the washing of feet on Holy Thursday as being symbolic of Preisthood you are probably correct. But many priest talk about it in terms of Christ humility and love. That our Saviour washed his disciples feet as a symbol of love. I think Pope Francis gesture was this. And by doing this he made the world wake up and take notice. If the leader of The Church will humble himself to wash the feet of juvenile prisoners then we should take it as an example of love especially those that don’t have hope or are marginalised. Of inclusiveness. I repeat myself when I say they have included women in this ceremony in my Church for a while now. I wasn’t shocked.
On “counting” Rosaries- he was referring to the “counting” part. Pope Francis said why didn’t they just say we are praying for you Holy Father. It’s like me saying to my child, look how much Ilove you I’ve cooked you 4,507 meals in your lifetime! Whose counting? Love is abundant, unconditional and doesnt keep record. It just does and keeps doing.
Marietta before you accuse the Pope of not loving the Rosary, it’s clear he lead Rosary prayers during the Month of Mary.
And Our Lady told Francisco to pray many Rosaries- she wasn’t specific about how many or “counting” them to achieve his target quota…so I fail to see your point. Again.
If you feel the Pope is misguided, try reading his comments in context. Understand what he is trying to teach before you dismiss.
EZ:
“Pope Francis meant it as a path to know God.” He did not say that. That’s why the Vatican press office was sent scampering for a clarification the very next day.
“On the washing of feet on Holy Thursday as being symbolic of Preisthood you are probably correct. But many priest talk about it in terms of Christ humility and love. That our Saviour washed his disciples feet as a symbol of love.”
As I said, he is Pope. He could have invalidated that rubric first before doing anything contrary to it. That way he would have avoided liturgical abuse. Or he could have washed as many women’s feet as he wanted on another occasion, but not on Holy Thursday, which, aside from commemorating institution of the Sacrament of the Eucharist, also commemorates the institution of the Sacrament of Holy Orders.
Pope Francis had asked for prayers from his flock. They delivered. And he laughed and mocked their gift of prayers – a spiritual boquet of rosaries. He called them Pelagians (i.e., heretics) and he laughted at them. This man, who is now our Pope, is a ….! They prayed for him and when they did, he mocked them!
And now, for the latest example of Bergolio bad manners. A “Year of Faith” concert had been scheduled in his honor. The young musicians felt honored to perform for him. All the guests waited and waited and waited. He stood them up, saying he was busy, etc. and that he is not a “Renaissance prince,” an obvious slap at the Pope Emeritus, who liked classical music. He should have declined the concert weeks or days ahead of time, but he did not have intentions to attend. He snubbed the guests at the last minute. Where are his manners?
EZ: Personal flaws, even sins, of Popes do not affect the indefectibility of Holy Mother Church, as her Bridegroom promises to be with her always.
But such foot-in-mouth syndromes could be annoying. The thing that is somewhat destabilizing that Pope Francis said (so far) was his comment about atheists. Not having explained it properly, it had to be corrected the very next day. My annoyance is the same I would have for a father or son or a nephew who I know should know better. I don’t wish our Pope harm (that would be hatred.) But if he continues to talk without much thinking, I might just wish to live long enough to see a new Pope.
As you said, we must pray for the Pope, and so do I. His name is mentioned at every Mass and I wholeheartedly approve, because it’s in the Canon and a priest celebrating Holy Mass must not change the text of the Ordinary.
I agree, Popes are human, too, and they have flaws. But it does not mean we may not look at the flaws. Our recent Popes JPII and Benedict XVI you yourself charged to have been remiss in administration of their office. Their flaws are nothing compared to those of Pope Alexander IV in the 12th century, or one of Pope Formoso’s (9th century) successors who had his body exhumed, dressed up in Papal vestments and had him put on trial in the notorious “Cadaver Synod.”
The quality of God’s mercy was not strained either, in that He created some of the greatest saints even among those who followed (unknowingly) an anti-Pope. For example, Saint Vincent Ferrer and Saint Collette both flourished spiritually under anti-Pope Benedict XIII (Pedro de Luna). St. Vincent got out from under his fake papacy in time, but St. Colette stayed and still became a great Poor Clare/Franciscan founder of a monastic community.
Please pray for me.
Where are your manners? He is my Pope as much as your Pope.
Re: Holy Thursday. Who cares whether he washed women feet before invalidating the rubric..? Who cares?! Why do you care so much? Christ performed miracles on the Sabbath…why do you think he went against Jewish rules? and the bible makes a point of recording it? Shouldnt the Son If God invalidated the law first?! I’m genuinely curious to know your response. ANY response to my numerous questions. ANYTHING!
I read your responses, all I see is this overwhelming disgust and hatred against this Pope. I’ve never read such awfulness against any Pope in my lifetime. Especially, ESPECIALLY from a Catholic. So- called Catholic. It’s like you await His every move to pounce. Just stop taking notice all together. Better for your soul.
I’m still waiting for you to list the good things Pope Francis has done. I don’t think you can bring yourself to say them.
re: being saved. Did the press go clamouring in damage control, or did you “read it” somewhere on one of those looney websites that claims Pope Francis is the anti-christ? I haven’t seen evidence of “scampering”.
I fail to find evidence to your accusations of the Pope. I’ve looked and looked …
Re: music event. Benefit of the doubt Marietta. Maybe he hadnt committed to the event. Maybe there was miscommunication. Maybe he didn’t want to go. Big deal. He obviously told them he wasn’t going if it was revealed he didn’t like classical music. Again, big deal. Who cares.
He doesn’t like classical music. SO WHAT?! Is liking Classical music a precrequisite to being Catholic? Did he have a go at Pope Emeritus did he? Gee, he didnt seem like he had no respect when the two Prayed together.
Re: counting Rosaries. I fail to read what you claim Pope Francis said. Again it was in regards to counting. And self-praise. You can say one Rosary well in your lifetime and a million very badly. Get it?!
Marietta is it not RIGHT to say what you say, and say how you say it against the successor of ST Peter? I didn’t know it was ok to have such disrespect and spread such twisted rubbish.
“This man who is our Pope is a..!…where are his manners”….there is nothing more to say to this than…where are your manners Marietta? A log wedged in the eye…perhaps. Maybe a Forrest!
EZ: You’ve copped out. Goodbye.
Marietta, wow! I think you’ve been caught out.
You don’t like being held answerable for your accusations.
You are happy to call the Pope names and unjustly accuse him, but won’t accept the same criticisms yourself that you’ve hurled at him?
Marietta, It’s easy to pontificate behind a keyboard with no authority from above.
God Bless Pope Francis, his leadership and courage.
God-willing he cleans out the Curia.
And I’m sure he’ll weed out the “face-value” Catholics from their cagey burrows, that forgot long ago that being a Christian is to follow the way of Christ. That have no obedience for the seat of St Peter. That have killed the soul if the Church.
You know who I’m talking about…
Oh. Forgot my manners.
Goodbye
EZ:
LOL! Okay, since you asked, LOL! I’ll answer.
1. “He is my Pope as much as your Pope.”
Sure, he is. It’s not may fault that he has bad manners.
2. Re: Holy Thursday. “Who cares whether he washed women feet before invalidating the rubric..? Who cares?! Why do you care so much?”
I care because the Holy Mass – the Eucharist, is the source and summit of Christian lives. The other sacraments, and indeed all ecclesiastical ministries and works of the apostolate, are bound up with the Eucharist and are oriented toward it. For in the blessed Eucharist is contained the whole spiritual good of the Church, namely Christ himself. It is the true Sacrifice of Christ on the Cross, the gift of the Holy Trinity handed down to the Church, whole and incorrupt – down the millennia from the time of the Apostles.
The celebrations of Holy Thursday are especially meaningful because it is on that day that we commemorate the two intertwined Sacraments founded by the Lord, without one there will not be the other. The sacraments of Holy Orders (the priesthood) and Holy Eucharist.
In celebrating Holy Thursday rites, the Church has, over the centuries, formulated rules called “rubrics” (The authority of the Church to set down rules has something to do with the “keys” that bind and loose.) that must be followed with care and utmost solemnity because the Mass is not really ours to invent – it is a gift, handed down to us. Still, the Pope, being the supreme lawgiver of the Church, may change the rules, provided such changes do not alter the Church’s understanding of herself (ecclesiology) in relation to this Supreme Sacrifice of Her Bridegroom.
Even theologians could not spin the fact that Pope Francis committed liturgical abuse at the Holy Thursday Mass, that could easily have been avoided.
He could have (1) scrap the mandatum rubric altogether, or (2) wash as many people’s feet he likes AT ANOTHER TIME. The fact that your parish Holy Thursday liturgy allows the washing of women’s feet does not matter – it’s still a liturgical abuse. When a Pope does it without first ruling out the rubrics, it’s a scandal.
3. “Christ performed miracles on the Sabbath…why do you think he went against Jewish rules? and the bible makes a point of recording it? Shouldnt the Son If God invalidated the law first?”
He did. Ask Saint Thomas Aquinas exactly what these lines of his mean regarding the Holy Euchaarist: “Et antiquum documentum, Novo cedat ritui.”
4. ‘ I’m genuinely curious to know your response. ANY response to my numerous questions. ANYTHING!”
Okay, okay – beg! (Just kidding) But on conditions:
A. You don’t accuse me of sneering at people who accept motorcycles and leather jacket gifts without first asking what I think of motorcycles or motorcycle gift-recipients.
B. You don’t ask for a list of flaws that people see in the Pope and when given, you call them “rubbish” without first researching if they had any bearings.
C. You don’t merely – Deny. Deny. Deflect. Deflect. And if that does not work – Kill the messenger.
D. You don’t finger-wag at people who criticize the Pope for personal idiosyncracies as if they were sinners. No, our religion is more reasonable than that. It’s not blind. It does not nag. As Pope Benedict says, “An uncriticized papacy is a failed papacy.”
5. “I read your responses, all I see is this overwhelming disgust and hatred against this Pope.”
That’s ALL you see? (I beg your pardon – I don’t hate the Pope (Hatred is with intention to avenge, which I don’t have.)
And you’re “genuinely curious to know my response?” Either you’re so close-minded, blind, or simply refuse to read what I’ve written. Oh, Baby – how could you be so unkind?
a. ” I’ve never read such awfulness against any Pope in my lifetime.”
Are you sure you were not alive in the 9th century or the 12th century? LOL! – Just kidding. Did you read what I wrote about Pope Alexander IV and Pope Formoso?
b. “Especially, ESPECIALLY from a Catholic. So- called Catholic. It’s like you await His every move to pounce. Just stop taking notice all together.”
If you remember, you DARED me to give you a list of his flaws, so I did. Okay, it’s Bush’s fault. I’m just the messenger you’re trying to kill. Come and get me, then. You called me a “so-called Catholic.” LOL! Do you know me enough to measure my Catholicity? But that’s okay, I guess, if it fits your narrow mind.
c. ” Better for your soul.”
It seems I just got myself a new spiritual director. But this is so immature.
6. “I’m still waiting for you to list the good things Pope Francis has done. I don’t think you can bring yourself to say them.”
Of course I’ll say them. If you be nice and reread this post from the very start – reading the conditions, which, I think are reasonable.
7. ” Re: being saved. Did the press go clamouring in damage control, or did you ‘read it’ somewhere on one of those looney websites that claims Pope Francis is the anti-christ?”
The damage-control came from the Vatican website itself. Fr. Federico Lombardi, SJ, is the head of the press office. I think he will not approve of you calling the Vatican press office a “looney website that claims the Pope is the anti-christ.” Fr. Lomabardi is a Jesuit – careful, or he’ll get yoouu!
8. I haven’t seen evidence of “scampering”.
The way of hurriedly-done clarification and correction the very next day by the Vatican press office is called “scampering.”
9. “Re: music event. Benefit of the doubt Marietta. Maybe he hadnt committed to the event.”
Sure. If he hadn’t committed to the event, he should have RSVPd-Regrets ahead of time. Instead of a no-show, with a later snide aside of “not being a Renaissange prince.” Courtesy dictates that if you can’t – or simply does not want to attend – you should tell the organizers so, weeks or even days BEFORE the event. Right?
10.”Big deal. He obviously told them he wasn’t going if it was revealed he didn’t like classical music. Again, big deal. Who cares. He doesn’t like classical music. SO WHAT?!”
11. Good manners from a Pope is a reasonable expectation of the faithful. It was only afterwards that he told someone he was not a Renaissance prince (i.e., does not like classical music.) He should have said so before the event, NOT after.
12. ” Is liking Classical music a precrequisite to being Catholic?”
It would be so nice, but no, it’s not a prerequisite to being Catholic. ( Neither is it a prerequisite to like all those Haugen-Haas-Schutte drek that are imposed on you in the garden-variety English Mass, circa 1980.)
13. “Did he have a go at Pope Emeritus did he? Gee, he didnt seem like he had no respect when the two Prayed together.”
Grow up. (I have a stronger explanation for this, but I’m afraid your tender, delicate mind will not be able to take it.)
14, ” re: counting Rosaries. I fail to read what you claim Pope Francis said. Again it was in regards to counting. And self-praise. You can say one Rosary well in your lifetime and a million very badly. Get it?!”
You’re accusing the women who gave the Pope a spiritual bouquet of rosaries as “self-praising,” and “praying them badly?” How did you know? How did the Pope know?
Why did he mock those women, tellilng his guests, “Don’t laugh” – then proceeded to call the rosary ladies ” Pelagians… restorationists, that go back to the ’40’s?” Now, tell me honestly. Honesly – Is that manner becoming of a Pope?
My Lord, my apologies for my tiny mind.
I get it, you hate Jesuits.
Your responses lack charity towards the Pope. They lack charity period.
Re-read them when you have had a chance to calm down.
Nothing wrong with questioning, I dont like your method! It’s horrible.
I don’t see how not invalidated the rubric affects your faith, even your faith in this Pope. But I’m dumb.
This very article questions the Pope, it doesnt call him names, with missing words and exclamation marks. It is respectful. I’ve never heard this vitriol in my time against any of the modern popes.
He was Pope for a what, a month, when you saw him disrespect Benedict XVI during their visit. Really?! Maybe you saw the word “Jesuit” and saw red.
I don’t blame Bush for everything. I’m not American. The world, the papacy, doesn’t revolve around the United States of America. Most rational Americans would agree.
Go over to Father Z Blog and read what he has to say about the Popes no show at the concert. His critique is poised, intelligent and invites dialogue- it also alludes to an explaination. it gives BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT,which is what you would expect from a priest, who unlike you, DOES have authority to question his boss. Who doesn’t lecture others and cause divide.
It wasn’t rude of his “handlers” to purposefully leave an empty chair there. To stick the knife into him. Pope Benedict has cancelled concerts, I didn’t see this sort of vitriol.
I question your sources, as most so called traditional websites who pine for Benedict, reporting on Pope Francis have questionable motives. Like Rorate Caeli et al. I don’t believe he was being rude when alluding to “counting”, I don’t believe he was being rude when he ALLEGEDLY referred to the Renaissance Prince. Only someone with religious pride would take offense for their egos being hurt.
Who knows why he didn’t cancel a concert before. Do you? Was it intentional to be political?
Again, no one is scampering, not even Lombardi. It’s just they know that minds with blinkers need footnotes. Pope Francis is not Benedict. Some are slower than others to accept.
It’s actually sad because the grass roots approach that Pope Francis is using will be lost on people like you, because you cut off your face despite your nose. That’s what happens when you choose not to listen, choose to be narrow minded and choose to be awfully judgemental.
Change is hard, but he is our Pope now. He is pushing the right buttons (yours perhaps?), and I understand why he is saying and doing it this way.
Marietta the Church is in a bad place. What are you holding onto?!!
Rubrics?
EZ:
If you’d just shut up your pathetic condemnation of me for a while, here’s what you ordered, sir.
What I see as Pope Francis’s good points:
1. When he was stil Cardinal- Archbishop of Buenos Aires, he helped two of his priests go free from the clutches of a tyrannical regime. A lot of people still think he abandoned those priests. But they were his priests and I’d like to think he did what a father would do for his sons, secretly helping them escape their kidnappers.
2. He went slumming without fear or embarrassment to meet the common people.
3. There was a report of a Eucharistic miracle in one of the parishes in his diocese. The then Cardinal Bergoglio had the matter properly investigated by employing the expertise of non-believer scientists and health professionals, skeptical journalists and neutral observers. The miracle turned out to be authentic, even causing a few conversions all around, all because the Cardinal was prudent enough to do the right thing. Check it out and be amazed. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APz1v8oz1ms
3. As Archbishop of Buenos Aires, then Cardinal Bergoglio concurred with Popes JPII and Benedict XVI’s condemnation of the Marxist-infested Liberation Theology. (Whether as Pope he still does remains to be seen. We’ll have wait and see where his “The Gospel is the poor” and – “The poor are the Gospel” will lead to.)
4. As Cardinal Archbishop of Buenos Aires, he reserved one of the larger churches in the center of town exclusively for use of the traditional Latin Mass, just days after Pope Benedict issued his motu proprio, Summorum Pontificum. But the Cardinal closed down the parish after some months – and you’ll find plenty of criticism about this in both English and Spanish websites. But I believe the fault lies on the people themselves. Let me explain:
When a Bishop throws the ball of a Tridentine Mass venue to you, catch it, hold it tight, away run away with it. Don’t drop the ball.
You don’t just show up at a traditional Latin Mass wearing a business suit or with a mantilla on your head. Considering that the old Mass has been suppressed for over 40 years, there’s plenty of work to be done before it could be restored it to its former glory.
Such as looking for a priest celebrant (if the Cardinal hasn’t assigned one) who knows how to read and understand at least a modicum of Latin. If he does not have a altar-size copy the 1962 Roman Missal, shop at EBay at get him a copy – even an old copy (They sell for less than $200 per.) Raise funds toward the purchase (or rentals) of the proper vestments, altar vessels (including a paten with a handle) and linens, a proper standing crucifix, Sanctus bell, an aspergil, a working thurible with a supply of incense, etc.
For the congregation, have a supply of the handy booklet that contains Prayers for the Ordinary of the Mass in Latin with Spanish translation, published by Una Voce Mexico and can be downloaded from their website. The booklet sells for the equivalent of $3 a piece (maybe cheaper in Latin America). The people need this, so they will understand what’s going on at the altar. For the Propers, you can download a week-to-week single sheet leaflet, ready for printing from the same site, Una Voce Mexico. Or tell the the people to dig out their grandmothers’ old hand missal and put them to use.
For the choir, get the members to buy a copy each (old copies or new reprints) of the Liber Brevior (about $15 a piece, maybe cheaper below the equator), get organized and learn to chant. There’s a great website of a seminary in Bogota where you can hear and download all the Proprio chants used from Sunday to Sunday. Get a CD or listen, and practice, practice, practice.
I suspect that the traditional Latin Mass organizers in Buenos Aires did not follow through with the project. Their priest reportedly used the Novus Ordo lectionary with lay readers doing the Epistle, not unlike in the Ordinary Form. Not surprisingly, the initial 200-family congregation dwindled to a point of no return. Who can blame the Cardinal for eventually shutting down the site? Anyway, that’s what I think happened. Or maybe I was just spinning it because from the get-go, I wanted so dearly to love with our new Pope, the way I did the Pope before him. And I think I am right on this – then Cardinal Bergoglio was generous with the Tridentine Latin Mass.
5. And now as Pope, he retained the services of the present Vatican liturgist, Archbishop Piero Marini. I don’t know whether it’s because Marini’s contract with Pope Benedict is still ongoing, but I hope it’s because Pope Francis does like the quality of Marini’s work.
6. Among the very first acts of this new Pope was to visit Santa Maria Maggiore Basilica in central Rome where he prayed and made flower offering at the altar of the Blessed Mother. A Marian Pope, and that’s a good sign. Next he paid his respect to the tomb of his Order’s founder, Saint Ignatius Loyola, another good sign. Lastly, he prayed at the tomb of one of the greatest Popes in Church History, Pope St. Pius V. I was exstatic to read about it in the news.
(Don’t think for a second that I give no importance to the Pope’s touching the infirm and the handicapped. Those are a given. Even Pope Paul VI, for all the criticism heaped at his papacy, had the kindness to visit the slums in Manila and entered a few hovels. And kissing of babies – well, watching a Pope or politician do it after the first few times could get pretty boring – unless it’s your own baby.)
For the record: I do like the Jesuits. The saintly Fr. Hardon, Fr. Mitch Pacwa, even the late ex- Malachi Martin.
EZ: You owe me an apology. But that’s all right, I forgive you for being so dense. Now that you have what you ordered, goodbye.
In a female not a “sir”.
I owe you an apology?
You called me dense.
You told me to shut up.
You called me immature, to grow up.
You referred to me as pathetic.
You said I’m narrow-minded and blind.
You referred to my mind as being delicate, tender and with an inability to understand.
You called me close-minded. Hah. I find that ironic.
You called me unkind.
And you jump on Pope Francis for lacking manners and courtesy..?!
You can criticise the Pope.
But nobody can criticise you.
You have the mandate on that one.
Your last post was your best. I loved it!
Stay on track with that and you might find you’ll benefit from Pope Francis leadership. It might make you a nicer person in debate too.
Now go read Father Z blog. It’s great!
Goodbye Marietta 😉
Apologies to Motley Monk, but I’m going to be shutting down this thread.