Mark Shea Demonstrates Once Again That He Does Not Read What He Writes

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Socrates opined that the unexamined life is a tragedy.  The same goes for blog writing.  Let’s take a look at the lament by Mark Shea over the canning of Simcha Fisher:

 

 

Msgr. Charles Pope, has a piece warning us to prepare for persecution.

Prophetic considering that a very good Catholic woman named Simcha Fisher, faithful to the Catholic Church, a mother of *ten* children who has worked tirelessly as a witness to the greatness and goodness of our Holy Catholic Faith, a fine writer who could be making a million bucks somewhere but who is spending her prodigious gifts in the service of the gospel, has been kicked out of her job to the salacious screams of a mob, all for using the English equivalent of “skubala” (Philippians 3:8) now and then and for making a couple of bawdy dick jokes on her private FB page (you know, like when St. Paul remarks to the Galatians that he wishes the circumcision enthusiasts would castrate themselves).

Look, I *get* that I’m abrasive and I get the rejoicing over my losing a job.  Fair enough.  But don’t hand me a load of bushwah about how Simcha Fisher had this coming.  Somehow or other, the anti-abortion-but-not-prolife movement has mutated into a thing that eats its young and imagines that the unborn are being served by punishing a mother of 10 children with loss of her livelihood.

This. Was. Wrong.

Simcha Fisher is an ornament of the Church.  She has been such a gift to so many and I will be grateful to God for her till the day I die.  Punishing a mother of 10 with loss of income over something this utterly trivial is a judgment, not on her, but on the mob of bullies across St. Blog’s rejoicing over her humiliation.  She does none harm. She says none harm. She thinks none harm. Nevertheless, it is not for the bawdy jokes that this mob have sought her blood, but because she would not bend to the marriage of the Faith with a fraudulent disgrace like Donald Trump.

If you value her witness, check out her book and think about hiring this funny, earthy, humble, godly and orthodox woman to come and speak at your parish.

Let’s parse this out shall we?

1. Shea starts out by comparing the persecution of the Church with a writer losing a writing gig.

2.  He goes on to say that Fisher could be making a million bucks somewhere unnamed.  (I guess then that losing a minor writing job is not an immense tragedy for her?)

3.  Shea is unable to see why a Catholic publication would find it problematic to have a writer who makes “dick jokes” on her Facebook page.

4.   Shea utilizes the old pro-abort technique of condemning people who oppose abortion as not being pro-life.

5.  With no evidence other than his assertion he proclaims Fisher an “ornament of the Church”.

6.  Once again he laments the loss of what I assume was a fairly modest income to someone who could earn a million bucks elsewhere.

7.  Shea concludes by comparing Fisher to Saint Thomas More and Donald Trump to Henry VIII.

Having blogged here at TAC for almost eight years, and usually submitting several posts a day, I understand that blog entries are not philosophical treatises, pure in logic and perfect in argument.  However, there should be some attempt to persuade.  Shea offers his readers nothing other than the fact that he is really ticked that Simcha Fisher will have to seek employment elsewhere.  Unless you already agreed with Shea, reading what he wrote was a waste of time, and for any writer that is a cardinal sin.

 

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67 Comments

  1. In spite of all his protestations to the contrary, Shea is not not upset that Fisher lost a job, but that he lost a job. He is a brat spoiled by the adulation of the diabolical legions of liberal progressives who follow him.

  2. Soon they’ll blame their problems on “false attacks from right wing groups.” A.K.A. “the vast right wing conspiracy.”
    .
    I only hope his children don’t starve before he lands that prison guard job.

  3. . What’s missing too is that I suspect they received prior warnings which they simply ignored though it is possible that obscene language on facebook in the one case could engender a quick firing….as per the Olympic swimmer who is losing endorsements based on several days behaviour.
    A real non religious job for Mark could be a Godsend. He’d grow from it. The internet is not causing growth in him but writing on scripture might since I once saw him shine brightly in an essay on the phrase “my God”…as opposed to the distant, non owned “God”.
    I often felt he was verbally abusive to many but perfectly silent on criticizing any sitting Pope and that struck me as a money thing. The paid Catholic parish speaking circuit is impossible for Pope critics. If you can like Benedict and Francis with equal gusto, you just might have a motive. But he might have felt that income constraint as a betrayal of his self and then acted out by spending half his life sounding critical to everyone under the sun but the Pope while knowing he had what sailing people call “the no go zone” which direction stops the sail boat cold.

  4. I find it interesting that Mark equates his, and Simcha’s, job loss with persecution. If you stop and think that one through, it probably says more than we can ever say. Especially since the agency that let them go is also a Catholic publication. Once again, the troubling part isn’t Mark’s assertion, but how many readers appear to agree.

  5. Shea lost me on the “mother of *ten* children” statement, but perhaps that is just sour grapes on my part.

  6. These two individuals seem devoid of all humility and charity.

    I do find it rather odd that someone looks at a Trump symbol and conjures up that image. Just a little unhinged. I’m sure she instructs her 10 children to be careful what they post on facebook; it can affect your employment status I’ve heard.

  7. A worker is worth their wage, said who ? (Jesus)
    That being said, I’ve never been paid for pro-life work. Am I not worth much ? Or am I just more dedicated than people like Shea/Fisher and do the right things for the right reasons, not because I’m being paid ?

  8. Did Fisher write those things on her “private Facebook page”, as Shea claims, or on her Simcha Fisher public fan page? I’ve seen several complaints that Fisher and Shea shouldn’t be held accountable for Facebook posting, as if they were just noodling around with a select group of “friends”, the way most of us do. And if that were the case, I’d tentatively agree, within limits, that those posts shouldn’t be grounds for firing. But unlike the rest of us, Fisher and Shea have public fan pages with thousands of followers. Of course they should be held accountable for their behavior in a public forum.
    .
    Note also the staggering amount of projection going on with these two and their horde of sycophants. They make their personal political opinions into a litmus test for orthodoxy, then claim that their opponents are blinded by their partisan political allegiances.

  9. One of the many ways in which Shea expresses his contempt for detractors: He uses minimal care and craftsmanship in his writing.

    Thanks for this.

  10. The publication in question is a private concern, and as such, pretty much “owes” none of its employees a job. Not sure how one has a moral right to employment at a particular business regardless of one’s actions. One may think a hiring or firing decision to be wise or unwise, prudent or imprudent, but to suggest that an opinion writer has a vested moral right to employment such that their firing is a moral issue is a stretch at best. Ironically (or nonsensically) Shea himself tacitly admits that his own firing was not an issue of right or wrong. Why then, if NCR had a problem with Fisher’s use of crude sexual language and how that might affect their readership, and therefore their bottom line, should they not feel free to fire both muckrakers equally?

    When you take a job like that, it’s understood, is it not, that if the Publisher does not like your point of view, or the way you put forth your positions (including lack of civility, smugness, imputation of all sorts of immorality and bad faith to your opponents, and finally, crude sexual references), you risk losing your job?

    Shea is just reaping what he’s sown; I imagine if one of his many opponents had been fired from a Catholic publication for using crude sexual references that might reasonably be expected to offend their readers and affect the publication’s reputation, he would bloviate about the opponent’s corruption, hypocrisy, and faux religiosity.

    I pity Shea, who seems a bit mentally and spiritually unhinged, and it seems a break from public disputations would be healthy for him. I’d suggest getting a job that requires getting out from behind a keyboard.

  11. The thing that just irritates these two M*ppet’s is that they can’t live off that part of the Church that is actually profitable any longer. If they go over to the the Reporter, they will have to live off the Zombie church. And that does not “grow the heretical pie”.

  12. “I often felt he was verbally abusive to many but perfectly silent on criticizing any sitting Pope and that struck me as a money thing.”

    It’s more than that, Bill. People like Shea and Fisher — and, sadly, far too many Catholics — worship the ecclesiastical bureaucracy as God instead of God as God. That’s where they placed their ultimate faith. That’s why they reacted in such a vile manner to anybody who dared challenge their opinions, especially with logic, reason and fact. The. Church. Can. Do. No. Wrong. It’s the exact same attitude that allowed clerical sex abuse to metastasize since before the days of St. Peter Damian and “Liber Gomorrahianus,” until it broke in Boston at the turn of this century.

    As I said on another thread on this blog, Shea and Fisher were con artists, pure and simple. They deluded sincere yet naive Catholics with their nonsense. Now that they’ve been found out, I hope they never get another job from a major Catholic client.

  13. We’ll it seems some at patheos are rallying around Mark .

    His description of Mark Shea’s engagement with others reads like it was dictated by Mark Shea to someone who’s been in a coma since 2004. Shea’s signature is deleting other people’s remarks while offering follow-up posts savaging the people who made them (albeit seldom by name). That’s a ‘happy warrior’?

    and it seems a break from public disputations would be healthy for him. I’d suggest getting a job that requires getting out from behind a keyboard.

    I once knew a retired faculty member from RIT who, past age 60, was hired as a security guard at the University of Rochester. He usually worked evening shifts. He said it was the best job he’d ever had. Shea’s going to need to get in shape in order to qualify for that sort of work, though.

  14. If they go over to the the Reporter, they will have to live off the Zombie church.

    I’m afraid the Zombie church includes most parish priests, nearly all parish musicians, the bulk of the chancery staff, college chaplaincies, the entire academic community bar Christendom College and a half-dozen others, the Cardinal-Archbishop of Chicago, various Vatican dicasteries, the entire German episcopate, and the current occupant of the Airline Seat of Peter.

  15. Art Deco….amen to the saccharine descriptions of the Shea problem as simply “anger” rather than a panoply of untoward choices and actions.
    Joe D’Hippolito….You’re a sports writer. Can’t tell you how mega thrilled I am over the UFC trilogy of fights of Nate Diaz (my fav) versus Conor McGregor…both champions in endurance….though Nate will have brain trouble in his latter years so he better save the millions he earned Saturday night.

  16. Murray….good one. Apparently some at Patheos feel that all anger is just and prophetic which would make ISIS even more Christlike than Mark.

  17. Hahahaha. According to another Patheo$ clickbaiter,

    His previous gigs include Vox Nova, that collecting pool of quondam theology students (leavened with oddball Gerald L Campbell) looking down their noses at vulgar you. If it didn’t occur to you that Shea’s chronic incapacity to offer a minimally faithful summary of what someone utters and thinks is something other than ‘charitable’, well, the academy is here to set you simpletons straight.

  18. Murray,
    I saw that. I actually commented on that post. I said after my one post that I wouldn’t say anything else but that pushed me. I can’t believe how many are rushing to his defense. They aren’t helping him , or Simhca, in the least. I wonder if they are just blind, or they really don’t think there is anything wrong with false accusations, or they don’t care and just want to keep Mark and Simcha propped up as shields and blockers to do their dirty work. I don’t know. But how can so many miss the obvious?

  19. Well, we know that Shea and Fisher have their fans. It is not surprising to see them defended, rather than read a critique of what happened.

    In the end, I care little of what Shea or Fisher or their supporters say or think. I have my own messes to clean up, two boys to educate and raise as informed, knowledgeable Catholics. I do not need Shea or Fisher. I have the examples of my grandparents, pious Catholics all, the brave Catholic history of Clan Lamont, and my ancestral connection to the Deep Catholic faith of Poland.

  20. I take absolutely no pleasure in the news that anyone has been “fired” from or otherwise discharged from an apostolate (paid or volunteer) to which they devoted a great deal of their life, even if the discharge was necessary or for good cause. It happened to me once, and it was a cause of great sorrow for me to this day. So, include me out of the piling-on brigade for people who lose jobs, speaking gigs, or other platforms because they said or posted or tweeted something stupid, wrong or rude. That’s punishment enough for most people.

    I liked both Mark and Simcha’s blogs for their quirky sense of humor and their open admission to not being Mr. or Mrs. Perfect Catholic Blogger. I have never visited either of their Facebook pages, however, so I probably missed the worst examples of the writings for which they were criticized. Political comments and memes on Facebook are a near occasion of many sins so I avoid them like the plague.

    Yes, Mark’s constant hammering on the evils of Donald Trump and “The Thing That Used To Be Conservatism” were becoming tiresome and some of his regular commenters were urging him to give it a rest. I would not have conducted the “Catholic and Enjoying It” blog the way he did. But I still got plenty of useful information out of it in between the political rants. No, I’m not trying to “prop them up as shields to do (my) dirty work”, simply taking note of the good that was intertwined with the bad.

    If either of them continues to write or blog somewhere else, I’ll still read them, and I’ll still politely disagree with them if they post something off the wall (I’ve done so on Mark’s blog and NEVER been banned for it).

  21. Elaine, I’m sure many don’t take pleasure in seeing them fired. But as I and others have said countless times, it had nothing to do with being tiresome, or mean, or nasty, or angry. It has to do with making false accusations, slandering people, attacking their reputations or falsely accusing their relationship with God. Those are serious. And they represent the faith in a public setting. I know less about Simcha, but I became part of a case earlier this year where she got into an argument with a young woman about the Cincinnati Gorilla shooting. The young lady said something about the mother and Simcha immediately labeled her a racist. Then Simcha found out the young woman was a lawyer running for office. Simcha called upon her readers in the woman’s region to dig up what they could to wreck her candidacy and even encouraged some who said the young lady should be barred form practicing law. Over the gorilla story. We’re not inquisitors. That is a dark spot in Catholic history, not something to relive by social media. I don’t know if Simcha made a habit doing such things, but even one attempt to destroy a person’s career over a facebook dispute is one too many IMHO. That is what many are trying to point out. It’s far beyond obsession here or harsh language there.

  22. At Art Deco: You write

    ” I’m afraid the Zombie church includes most parish priests, nearly all parish musicians, the bulk of the chancery staff, college chaplaincies, the entire academic community bar Christendom College and a half-dozen others, the Cardinal-Archbishop of Chicago, various Vatican dicasteries, the entire German episcopate, and the current occupant of the Airline Seat of Peter.”

    What you forgot to mention is this…. quickly approaching Perestroika and its very own Gorbachev moment.

  23. “7. Shea concludes by comparing Fisher to Saint Thomas More and Donald Trump to Henry VIII.”

    Well, it is believed that Henry VIII died from syphillis and Trump did claim venereral diseases to be his own personal Vietnam. So Shea’s comparison is at least partly right.

  24. I completely agree that Mr. Shea should get a job as a prison guard, preferably overseeing all those poor, misunderstood murderers that he feels never deserve the death penalty.
    I read Fisher’s blog for a short while. I guess she was trying to be approachable and earthy, but it just came across as vulgar.
    But I’m sure there will be parishes who (foolishly) continue to pay them to speak. Michael Coren kept his speaking gigs for a year before anyone figured out that he wasn’t actually Catholic anymore.

  25. This post and the bulk of the comments are disgusting.

    Only in a polarized culture that has seduced Catholics into its false dichotomies could Mark Shea and Simcha Fisher be declared progressive con artists.

    Shea and Fisher are the kinds of Christians who bring people into the Church. Y’all are the kinds that turn people away.

  26. I’ll still read them, and I’ll still politely disagree with them if they post something off the wall (I’ve done so on Mark’s blog and NEVER been banned for it).

    I think o’er at Patheticos the same rules apply which applied at BeliefNet. He does not have the discretion to ban you. The site moderators have that discretion, but you have to violate a menu of p’s and q’s more involved than Mark Shea’s sensibilities. He can, however, delete your remarks, and he does do that.

  27. “Only in a polarized culture that has seduced Catholics into its false dichotomies could Mark Shea and Simcha Fisher be declared progressive con artists.”

    You have to be a member of the polarized left to believe that.

  28. How about that? WSYIWYG or whatever he/she calls him/herself says that little ol’ me and the nice group of folks at Mr. McClarey’s keep people out of the Catholic Church. Damn, never knew that!
    Well, I never got paid by the Register or anyone else to badmouth Catholics I disagreed with.

    For the record, the people in the Church I have criticized the most here is the heterodox hierarchy. As for Shea and Fisher, they got what they had coming.

  29. AJGSyc. You illustrate the problem. You’re basically saying what Mark and Simcha do is no problem, only those who are doing the same to Mark and Simcha (and possibly, not as bad as what Mark or Simcha have done), are the problem. You see the problem with that?

  30. Only in a polarized culture that has seduced Catholics into its false dichotomies could Mark Shea and Simcha Fisher be declared progressive con artists.

    Shea and Fisher are the kinds of Christians who bring people into the Church.

    Well, you’re right, ‘progressive con artist’ is a bad description of Mark Shea. “Vessel of free-floating aggression’ is a much better description. Some people may find that attractive, people I’ll do my best to keep my distance from.

  31. Shea’s not a con artist. As far as I can tell, he’s wholly sincere in his beliefs, and I even believe his frequent mea culpas (invariably preceding a swift relapse) are heartfelt. But social media–and perhaps political argument itself–is a near occasion of sin for him, and it betrays his poor judgment that he can’t stay away from it.
    .
    Mark’s rage issues, and his propensity to calumny and scandal long predate Donald Trump and Pope Francis, but have become far worse since they arrived on the scene. To make matters worse, he has driven away reasonable interlocutors during his long descent and replaced them with an echo chamber of those who appreciate his gutter rhetoric, and who seen to have great difficulty distinguishing their political beliefs from the Catholic faith.

  32. If anybody believes that Mark Shea isn’t a con artist, read Matthew 7:18-20 and Galatians 5:22-23, then get back to me.

  33. Murray,
    My thoughts exactly. Mark wasn’t always what he became. And as I said on my own little post in the tempest, I blame those same followers who flocked to the echo chamber, urging him on and calling him out when he did apologize as much as, if not more than, I blame him.

  34. I haven’t been in the loop, but as a point of general interest– if what you write on facebook is set so that someone who is not on your “friend” list can see it, it is not legally private. So if you set it so that friends of those tagged can see, it’s not legally private.
    I know there are folks who disagree with the legal definition of private speech, but thought it was worth pointing out.
    ****
    As far as Shea’s work goes– I think this might actually be pretty good for him. I haven’t read him in ages because he gets…. very heated, the longer a discussion goes, and more likely to confuse his judgement with binding teachings.
    But I’d imagine that there will still be “hire Mark Shea to speak at your church” fliers around, and he’s good at that, when he can keep it from becoming personal.
    *****
    Fisher I don’t know, I’ve had only a tiny bit of exposure to her and could sense a personality mis-match, so I didn’t pursue reading her.

  35. I think it bears repeating that Mark Shea’s biggest problem isn’t his temperament, as bad as that is, but his repeated acts of calumny. Because of this, I believe he has absolutely no business making his living as a Catholic writer, speaker, or apologist until cleans up his act, which includes making amends to those he has slandered over the years. Not only do I think he should not be hired to speak any Catholic parish, any diocesan bishop who is aware of his conduct should forbid any parish within his diocese from hiring him or anyone who conducts himself in like manner.

  36. Shea and Fisher are the kinds of Christians who bring people into the Church. Y’all are the kinds that turn people away.

    And with this statement we see further evidence that “conservative souls don’t matter” or at least that liberals are the only ones worth saving.

    In an ideal world, both would play to their strengths. Shea would sell to the liberals, TAC would sell to the conservatives and they would do their best to avoid stepping on each others toes. Instead we have Shea intent on living down to the worst stereotypes Americans used to believe about Catholics (which TAC has documented and discussed previously).

    Only in a polarized culture that has seduced Catholics into its false dichotomies could Mark Shea and Simcha Fisher be declared progressive con artists.

    A handy rule of thumb: If someone tries to claim their political position based upon other people they point out as further left than them? That person is a leftist/liberal. If someone claims their political position based upon a precise nomenclature (libertarian, neo-con, paleo-con, minianarchist, etc) then they’re rightist/conservative.

    Those who express honestly they never thought about it, are usually your independents/moderates.

    Really the evidence that Shea’s leftist is more a drinking game than debatable, the fact he disagrees with them only 2, maybe 3 issues doesn’t change his agreement with them on the other 97-98 issues.

  37. Shea is the kind of person that drove my husband out of the Church, by teaching him that it was made in Shea’s image, rather than that of God.
    The folks here, for all of their flaws recognized and unrecognized, brought him back. They’ve nurtured his knowledge of the faith, as opposed to Shea and those like him who will give you good information– and then not mention when they switch to their own views.
    Even if their own views are piles of personal judgments.
    This gets especially bad if they end up promoting a flat-out fiction, like some of those in the Torture Debates that conflated waterboarding with a wide range of historic tortures which was less accurate than conflating a C-section and being drawn and quartered.

  38. Take a wild guess how things shake out when someone of more than moderate intelligence and high curiosity discovers that what they’ve been taught is true is, factually, false.
    If it had been honestly taught as being Shea’s view or that of those like him, it would be savable; when it’s been taught as The Truth By The Church, then the Church is tarred.

  39. If the Church is what Shea and his leftist kind teach, then I will leave with all alacrity. But it isn’t. As far as I am concerned, Shea and his kind are heretics who if they fail to repent must be purged from the Body of Christ.
    .
    And no, I am NOT a Trump enthusiast but I darn sure will vote for him if that is the only way to keep that murderous pathological liar out of the White House.

  40. no business making his living as a Catholic writer, speaker, or apologist until cleans up his act,

    He’s 59 and too heavy for any sort of employment which requires stamina. Not sure what there is for him in today’s labor force.

  41. There is the Huffington post, The Daily Kos, and even Al Jazeera.

    Heh. Shea’s always been dismissive of the gay lobby. As far as I can recall, the liberal opinion-mongers who’ve been inclined to flip off the gay lobby and gotten away with it have been Andrew Greeley ca. 1987 (not later), Andy Rooney, Robert Sherrill, and John L. Hess. AM Rosenthal supposedly was unimpressed as well and incorporated that into editorial policy, but not given to saying much in cold print. You’ll notice that all of these men were born between 1916 and 1929. Vociferous homosexuals are incensed when anyone critiques them (much less offers off-hand remarks on adolescent antics), and gay rage and status games on the left will make it a deal breaker for their editors. Clayton Cramer was kicked off a group blog run by law professors because they discovered some writings of his critical of homosexauals that he’d published eight years earlier. That particular blog is run by soi-disant libertarians, natch.

  42. Now that I think about it, Al Jazeera won’t bother about that. However, I don’t think Shea cares much about Israel one way or another. Might be a red flag for Al Jazeera.

  43. Like most liberal blowhards, Shea does nothing useful and has no marketable technical knowledge. He caused this situation. Let him wallow in it. I got no pity for his kind whatsoever. Survival of the fittest is what he merits. Bombastic egotistical demogogue ranting and raving his left wing excrement everywhere.
    .
    But as I posted elsewhere, maybe the Huffington Post will pick him up for its religion section.

  44. Starbucks? ?

    I think it was Christopher Fotos or someone in that circle who said the challenge for a supervisor with Shea working retail would be similar to that involved with Rosie O’Donnell working retail. Cannot really put him in front of the public.

  45. I think an honest, 9 – 5 job in $15 minimum wage Seattle will be good for him. But probably not one where he needs to work with customers.

  46. He’s near Seattle. Catholic school teaching or Uber driving. My Friday penance is to pray to various saints for both Mark and Simcha…every hour. I’m into the uncanonized Marks right now…I figure they’re less busy than the headline Mark of the gospel. Like Trump, I figure the realities of the deal.
    There are millions of uncanonized saints who would be glad to handle a request for intercession.
    Mary….I don’t know how she processes requests each day in the millions. She gets millions…the uncanonized get zilch each day.

  47. Somehting I have not noticed in these posts…..I question the education in Catholic theology, history and catechesis that Shea received. I did notice that he began to snap over the torture issue after the Iraq War.

    Somehow, he ended up with writing gigs about the Catholic Church and Catholic issues….for which I do not consider him to be qualified. Know what? I’m not qualified for that either. Therefore, I don’t do it.

    Re: Trump vs. Clinton…..for some reason I consider Trump to be more redeemable than Hilary Clinton.

  48. Actually Art, Shea is quite hostile toward Israel. So, Al Jazeera would be a fit. Or he could branch out on his own and found Al Sheazeera.

  49. Greg, here are a couple of pieces I wrote for David Horowitz’s Front Page Magazine about Shea’s attitudes toward Israel, the Middle East and American foreign policy:

    http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/124627/catholic-writers-propaganda-iran-joseph-hippolito

    http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/129141/propagandist-strikes-back%E2%80%A6and-strikes-out-joseph-hippolito

    Shea’s rant effectively give aid and comfort to the enemies of the United States and Israel — most of whom wouldn’t blink twice about murdering Christians

  50. t Shea’s attitudes toward Israel,

    That stuff’s near beer. There’s another example of Shea’s inability to render anyone else’s thinking with minimal precision. Whether it’s stupidity or its gamesmanship on his part, it’s not an indicator of hostility to Israel which extends above and beyond his baseline level of aggression. He also regurgitates palaeo rubbish about ‘Empire’. Hostility to Israel has been a feature of a strand of traditionalist opinion typified by Joseph Sobran and a strand of ‘social justice’ types in the Catholic Church who appear to loathe Israel because it has a non-ornamental military who carry weapons loaded with live ammo. Sobran was a literary critic at heart who had no rough-and-ready sense of social relations and it was reflected in his political writings (which careered into witless anarchism toward the end of his life). Others less sophisticated trade in social fictions which cannot survive half an afternoon of research (or half and hour of research) but which they find very attractive. (Some involving Israel today; others involving the Project for a New American Century, Leo Strauss, &c.; others involving the Rothschilds). (The current editor of Crisis was once employed at ISI Press and appears to have brought one such troll to work for him at his present locus, who conceives of his job as protecting other such trolls from being taken to task in the comboxes).

  51. Art, not all such hostility has to be overt or obvious. By dismissing the military belligerence of a nation whose most public foreign-policy demand is the obliteration of Israel and by mocking Israel’s legitimate right to self-defense, Shea engages in de facto hostility toward Israel.

  52. Just remembering an execrable internet character who in early 2003 stated that St. John Paul II’s opposition to the US invasion of Iraq was “traditional Catholic anti-Semitism.” That useless mess of human flotsam is Andrew Sullivan.
    .
    I apologize to Mark-who for any appearance of comparing him to Sullivan.
    .

  53. Art, not all such hostility has to be overt or obvious. By dismissing the military belligerence of a nation whose most public foreign-policy demand is the obliteration of Israel and by mocking Israel’s legitimate right to self-defense, Shea engages in de facto hostility toward Israel.

    Paulbots fancy there are no foreign policy dilemmas by making the delusional claim that problems abroad are the result of placing foreign relations in the hands of fools and knaves like Dean Acheson and Henry Kissinger and Paul Wolfowitz rather than in the hands of savvy guys like Ron Paul. Since international engagement is a given, you can always point to some sort of friction or phenomenon as prior in time to whatever events are current. The causality is nonsense of and cannot be demonstrated by comparative study. Paul avoided ever getting nailed on such questions by forever saying what we should of done rather than what we should do, among other stratagems. Shea’s viewpoints on these matters is entirely derivative of this sort of discourse. It’s objectively antagonistic to Israel’s interests, but that is not the intent incorporated within it. Someone genuinely hostile to Israel whose entire worldview is composed of malicious fictions can be seen here

    https://disqus.com/by/billmulligan/comments/

  54. “Someone genuinely hostile to Israel whose entire worldview is composed of malicious fictions can be seen here.”

    Art, I’m perfectly willing to admit that Shea is not a morbid anti-Semite. I also realize that Shea shoots from the hip so often that he has no idea about the consequences of his remarks or ideas — nor does he care. His response to his firing proves at least that much. Nevertheless, one doesn’t have to be a morbid, vicious anti-Semite to demonstrate hostility toward Israel. Whether that hostility is intentional or accidental is a secondary issue. In Shea’s case, it’s probably the latter because of his tendency to shoot from the hip without thinking. He might not show the same degree of hostility, but it’s still hostility.

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