The Pope is Against War Unless—

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Oakes Spalding at Mahound’s Paradise notes that the Pope has an exception to his ludicrous belief that wars are caused by greedy arms merchants:

 

A year before he became Pope, at a Mass in Buenos Aires for the 30th anniversary of the Falkland’s War, Archbishop Bergoglio told worshippers:

We come to pray for all who have fallen, sons of the homeland who went out to defend their mother, the homeland, and to reclaim what is theirs, that is of the homeland, and it was usurped.

In March of 2013, the Falkland Islands held a referendum on whether the inhabitants wished to remain a British territory. 1,513 out of 1,516 voted Yes.

Against that, Prime Minister David Cameron was asked what he thought of the newly elected Pope’s views on the Falklands.

I don’t agree with him – respectfully, obviously. 

There was a pretty extraordinarily clear referendum in the Falkland Islands and I think that is a message to everyone in the world that the people of these islands have chosen very clearly the future they want and that choice should be respected by everyone.

He then said the funniest thing this blogger is aware of Cameron ever saying:

As it were, the white smoke over the Falklands was pretty clear.

The Pope’s words at the homily above, make interesting reading next to his more well-known statements about war, such as that it’s a plot by weapons manufacturers or the natural result of international capitalism run amok:

We are discarding an entire generation to maintain an economic system that can’t hold up any more, a system that to survive, must make war, as all great empires have done. But as a third world war can’t be waged, they make regional wars…they produce and sell weapons, and with this, the balance sheets of the idolatrous economies, the great world economies that sacrifice man at the feet of the idol of money, are resolved…

The Pope has more recently said that war should be “forever rejected” and that it “never solves anything”.
So he’s against war unless it’s war initiated by fascist generals attacking peaceful islanders by surprise in order to play into nationalistic prejudices.
Go here to read the rest.  The Argentinian generals started the war to divert attention from domestic troubles.  By losing the war they ended up being toppled.  Argentina, as a nation, has a huge chip on its shoulder, and  nowhere is this more manifested than in its mania for getting back the worthless Falkland/Malvinas islands.  The Falklands have been a crown colony since 1840, and Argentinian claims to the islands are  dubious in the extreme.  However, Argentinian kids are brought up to believe that British rule over these worthless pieces of dirt is a crime up there with Original Sin, and the Pope obviously bought this tripe hook, line and sinker.  That he is unable therefore to understand why other peoples would fight wars over issues he regards as silly, is merely another example of how the Pope of mercy has a great deal of difficulty with putting himself in the shoes of someone who does not march in lockstep with his views.

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31 Comments

  1. Referring to the Falklands as ‘worthless’. They’re worth something to the people who live there (who wan’t no part of Argentine political society). It may have something to do with Argentina’s chronic case of The Stupids.

  2. One might recall that Spain continues to claim Gibraltar (the wishes of its inhabitants notwithstanding). The more sensible Guatemalans reduced their territorial claim to Belize from 100% of that territory to 75%. And, of course, there’s a Punch-and-Judy show between Ecuador and Venezuela every generation or so.

  3. “They’re worth something to the people who live there”

    Yep, and the 3,398 of them should be the only ones that care about their economically barren home. Agree as to Argentinian The Stupids.

  4. Art…Evuador and Venezuela have Colombia between them. Do you mean Venezuela and Suriname?
    Bolivia is still mad that it lost its access to the Pacific in a war with Chile in 1870. Chile has the good sense not to be run by a Communist and as such it’s economy and military would smash Bolivia.
    Argentina and Brazil nearly wiped Paraguay off the map in the 1860s.
    The USA created the nation of Panama out of a Colombian department in order to finish the Panama Canal. The US took some of Mexico, too….and paid cash for it, but then again Mexico has never been able to govern what it has anyway.

  5. Ecuador and Peru

    ===

    Not barren. Satisfactory fishing and sheep herding. Principal trading partner is Spain and their export trade has been surprisingly lucrative in recent years. Exports per capita were $60,000 in 2017

  6. Great Britain and her Protestant Dutch allies invaded and took Gibraltar – and strong armed Spain into ceding it. Great Britain made a lot of enemies in the 18th century and it’s one of the reasons Spain sided with and supported the USA during the War for Independence.

    So Argentina whines for the Malvinas. Big deal. Poland lost her entire nation for 123 years. Poland defeated Lenin’s Red Army in the Polish Soviet War and fought a series of skirmished with Germany to reclaim Wielkopolska. Germany had no intention of giving up what she took in the Partitions.

    So, as a result of the Molotov von Ribbentrop Pact, Poland lost the Kresy – the eastern part of Poland in which lied Lvov, Grodno and most of the Białowieża Forest. Poland lost Wilno. Poland also lost 20% of its population. Germans were kicked out of Prussia and all lands east of the Oder River (Stettin, Breslau), but Poland lost more land than she gained……oh, and no Marshall Plan aid or reparations. Stalin saw to that

    So what’s the point? Except for a few fervent Poles who issue demands of reparations from Germany that will not be met, Poland has moved on. Argentina is truly a dumb country.

  7. I’d expect a bishop to show due regard for those who died for his country, for the sake of piety and patriotism. However, I’m disturbed at a modern bishop suggesting that any war of aggression is a just war. Has he said anything more recent on the matter?

  8. The USA created the nation of Panama out of a Colombian department in order to finish the Panama Canal.

    At that time (and I believe still), Panama is inaccessible to Colombia by land due to dense tropical rainforest (through which a road has never been cut). It’s like an island. Separatist sentiment wasn’t novel in 1903 nor has there been in the intervening four generations a movement to re-attach Panama to Colombia.

    This article contends that the loss of Panama was not an issue in the Colombian general election of 1904.

    https://www.jstor.org/stable/979991?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

  9. “Satisfactory fishing and sheep herding.”

    That could be done much more profitably in any number of places on the globe not so remote from the centers of trade. The native population of the Falklands is around 2500, a little more than half the village I live in. The remainder consists of the British military and dependents and civilian contractors. The Brits spend about 100 million a year to defend this relic of empire. The Brits were right to fight to defend the Falklands in 1982 against the Argentinian seizure, but from a dollars and cents standpoint, the fuss over the Falklands from either the Argentinians or the Brits has never made any sense.

  10. Why does anyone listen to this Pope (?) about anything? He has no worthwhile expertise on anything, his judgement is questionable, he is not virtuous. But, as a result, he does teach us one lesson: whatever he favors we should reject.

  11. That could be done much more profitably in any number of places on the globe not so remote from the centers of trade.

    Again, their annual export revenue has been running at $60,000 per capita.

  12. from his own country’s cesspool.

    Argentina’s problem, at least since about 1928, has been an incapacity to properly leverage it’s advantages. It actually isn’t a cesspool, just a country not nearly as orderly and affluent as places with comparable advantages. A culture of folly will do that to you.

  13. The gross domestic annual product of the Falklands Art is 164 million. In order to produce this the British government shoulders defense costs of 100 million a year. The median income of Falkland residents is about what they would earn in Great Britain. Economic value is not an argument in favor of the Brits keeping the Falklands.

  14. Art, the Darien Gap has never been bridged. The Pan American Highway ends at either end of the Darien Gap. It has been a good hiding place for the FARC and other nasty people. The US Government does not want the Pan American Highway completed through the GAP because of expectations of expanded drug trafficking. The enviro-whackos would scream to the heavens of their non-gods.

    No nation with the advantages of Argentina has done as poorly as Argentina. They do have terrific beef. My favorite steak is churrasco – hard to get in Pittsburgh, but oh, so available in Miami….and in San Juan, you can get churrasco in the mall food court.

  15. It has been a good hiding place for the FARC and other nasty people.

    IIRC, FARC’s strongholds were in the southern part of Colombia. Its my understanding that the rainforest which straddles Panama and Colombia is impassable. A place to die, not a place to hide.

  16. The Faulkands serves as a British Navy base in the area. And there was contention over the British drilling for oil offshore which means big $$. Perhaps there is something lucrative in the area we are not aware of? The inhabitants prefer to be British citizens. Nonetheless, The British haven’t made many friends along their road to colonialism. And perhaps Faulkands is Argentina’s way of standing up to them and wanting them to stay out of the region…Britian has claimed nearly every corner of the earth that has any worth to them, at some stage in history.

  17. My husband and I once ordered steak at an Argentine restaurant in Israel. We were surprised when some steak on a stick arrived and thought we had misread the menu, which would have been easy to do. We ate most of that serving and were prepared to leave, confused but no longer hungry. Then the waiter brought another meat dish, which was not yet what we had ordered, so my husband pointed to the menu and the waiter assured us it would come soon. We had to tell him we could not possibly eat any more, apologized, paid, and left. So strange, so much beef.

  18. The British haven’t made many friends along their road to colonialism. And perhaps Faulkands is Argentina’s way of standing up to them and wanting them to stay out of the region…Britian has claimed nearly every corner of the earth that has any worth to them, at some stage in history.

    Uh, Ezebelle, Argentina is a society composed of European colonists and immigrants. The aboriginal share of the population is tiny. Rather like…Australia.

    And Britain was excessively thorough in disposing of its overseas dependencies. France retained all of its insular territories except Madagascar and the Comoros. Britain disgorged every insular dependency which had a population over 80,000 (as well as a few less populous than that). It’s never had any territory adjacent to Argentina. The Falklands are a looong plane ride from all but the most remote sections of the country. Britain was Latin America’s largest trading partner four generations ago. Is this what you fancy Argentina is ‘standing up’ against?

  19. “Uh, Ezebelle, Argentina is a society composed of European colonists and immigrants.”

    Uh Art- Italian not British. Or is Europe one big lump to you. The British see themselves as very much separate from mainland Europe, pick up the newspaper.

    What’s trade got to do with control? Our biggest trading partner is China, we don’t want China colonising us.

    Stop painting the British as messiahs who have saved the world- their commonwealth nations are still praising their good, but they have spread a lot of s$&@ along the way too. Many are calling Argentina a cesspool, well if Argentina is a cesspool then what do you call Britain these days? Britain with all its might and opportunities is a disaster; in fact it’s an embarrassment.

  20. Spoken like a true Aussie, Ezabelle. The colonisation of Australia was initially a colony for convicts, because the Brits lost North America as their dumping ground. But then came some good folks, along with more of the downtrodden – like the Irish – and later because they needed population, the wogs – otherwise known as the Italians, Greeks and other Middle Eastern people. I know – I lived in Wollongong for 10 years back in the ’80’s and loved it. Great people ( a number of Aussie cousins) and great arguments and p**s taking, because I am a Kiwi – say no more.
    But yes, the UK has really gone to the dogs, not just in immigration which will cost them their identity if they don’t solve the problem (like…being part of the EU ) but also because they have lost their Christian identity and gone so PC liberal that they have lost their senses. But despite their sometime wrongdoing, they certainly brought justice, rule of law and civility to much of the world – much of which they appear to be now abandoning because they have deserted Christianity – fruits of the so called Reformation..

  21. Uh Art- Italian not British. Or is Europe one big lump to you. The British see themselves as very much separate from mainland Europe, pick up the newspaper.

    Unless it’s your thesis or their thesis that there’s something doubleplusungood about British colonization not to be found in quondam Spanish colonies (whether or not they be later populated with Italian immigrants), complaints of that nature are just partisan rubbish, and don’t merit the attention of serious people. It wouldn’t surprise me if a critical mass of Argentines do think that way. It’s a country with a stupid political culture.

    What’s trade got to do with control? Our biggest trading partner is China, we don’t want China colonising us.</I.

    During the 19th century, Britain was the most influential foreign power in Latin America and the principal trading partner of a number of Latin American countries. That's as close as Britain ever got to being an irritant to Argentina or anyone else. The notion that Argentina is reacting to British misbehavior is entirely imaginary. You subscribe to that notion, because that’s how you roll, not because anything untoward happened between 1821 and 1898.

    Stop painting the British as messiahs who have saved the world-

    I never implied any such thing. Quit playing games. I’m not your husband. (The British are quite accomplished in their way, btw, but enumerating that has not heretofore been part of the discussion).

    but they have spread a lot of s$&@ along the way too.

    And if they hadn’t, some other party would have come along and spread stinkier s!i$. That’s life in an imperfect world. (By the way, Irish nationalists deserve no quarter).

    Many are calling Argentina a cesspool, well if Argentina is a cesspool then what do you call Britain these days?

    A much more affluent cesspool with a lower homicide rate and much less in the way of currency erosion and public sector borrowing.

    Britain with all its might and opportunities is a disaster; in fact it’s an embarrassment.

    They have the same problems you find in any other occidental country, bar one: their fertility deficit is far less pronounced than any continental country other than France. If Britain embarrasses you, just about every other occidental country should.

  22. Art Deco- rack off you sexist fool. Go speak to your wife like that. You talk rubbish.

    Thanks for the non sequitur. It’s been an education.

  23. Thanks Don. Wollongong is a great part of Oz, and it’s really growing as a city you wouldn’t recognise it. Still not as beautiful as NZ. Yes I agree Britain has lost their identity, I’m sure they don’t know what they want to be anymore. Scotland wanted to separate, the Irish did except for the North. They let in too many immigrants mainly from their British colonies but I don’t think they could predict the impact it would have on them, particular since most came from non-Christian countries. Islam is a huge problem there. There is a large number of expats in Australia (we have had two British neighbours thus far)- most say they moved here so their children would grow up in a safer and “better” environment. Fancy an ex-colony like Australia being better than the Empire which once ruled it? I would imagine the same thing has happened in NZ. I think attitudes of contries such as Argentina is due to how the Brits behave abroad. And the level of entitlement they seem to have because they are British. Which is why I think it is fair to have a level of sympathy for Argentina and why they question Britains occupation of a small island not far from their nation. Britain did much good in their colonies but their arrogance doesn’t serve them well in their decision making or their reputation today.

  24. I think attitudes of contries such as Argentina is due to how the Brits behave abroad. And the level of entitlement they seem to have because they are British.

    Thanks for the projection. Also educational. Actually, at the time, Argentines who were able to get their letters published in American newspapers called attention to the Anglo-Argentine population as proof that Anglophones could have agreeable lives in Argentina. (Give or take the nuisance caused by the political violence and the triple digit inflation).

    Which is why I think it is fair to have a level of sympathy for Argentina and why they question Britains occupation of a small island not far from their nation.

    The Falklands are a 2.5 hour plane trip from the nearest airport in Argentina. Flights from London to Warsaw are about the same duration.

    The actual residents want no part of Argentine political life and are perfectly happy to be ‘occupied’. There were never any other residents bar a series of garrisons which came and went over a period of 40-odd years and a tiny civilian colony there for about 5 years and ejected by the US Navy in 1831. It would be anachronistic to call it an ‘Argentine’ colony, because Argentina did not exist as a political entity at that time.

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