Thursday, March 28, AD 2024 7:18pm

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Every riot tells us what a world without cops would be like.  The absence of law is no law, but rather the return of the law of nature, ever red in tooth and claw.

 

 

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David WS
David WS
Thursday, June 18, AD 2020 7:29am

I’m unfortunately to play the devils advocate here:

Officer, Do you know and practice Jujutsu, and can use it to subdue a person?
“developed to combat the samurai of feudal Japan as a method for defeating an armed and armored opponent in which one uses no weapon, or only a short weapon.[3] Because striking against an armored opponent proved ineffective, practitioners learned that the most efficient methods for neutralizing an enemy took the form of pins, joint locks, and throws?”

Answer: No. Unlike tasers and handguns, I’ve had little to no training on that. I reach for the former from the toolbox provided to me.

Foxfier
Admin
Thursday, June 18, AD 2020 8:26am

Not seeing how that’s a devil’s advocate, looks like an explanation of why you WANT to outnumber the guy you’re arresting so overwhelmingly that he notices.

David WS
David WS
Thursday, June 18, AD 2020 8:58am

My son brought this to my attention. He’s studying Jujutsu. From what he’s told me, the majority of police have little to no training in this or any other martial arts and how to subdue a suspect.
I respectfully think there’s room for improvement on this. If the two officers in Atlanta were trained, I can’t help but think things would have ended differently.

John F. Kennedy
John F. Kennedy
Thursday, June 18, AD 2020 9:38am

David, it could have ended differently if he didn’t get drunk and drive while on probation, resist arrest or take a weapon from a police officer AND then fire it at the police.

Foxfier
Admin
Thursday, June 18, AD 2020 11:25am

From what he’s told me, the majority of police have little to no training in this or any other martial arts and how to subdue a suspect.

They don’t do martial arts for subduing people, in no small part because martial arts are a poor tool for the situation.
They’re formalized brawling.
If you are brawling as a law enforcement officer, it’s time to use a better tool, not to get better at brawling. That’s before considerations like the amount of time and practice required to use martial arts as a weapon is considered, much less the physical problem that criminals are disproportionately young, big and male. A consistent theme in the police brutality videos where they’re trying to use physical force is that the police officers are the relative size of an average woman to an average man– without rules being enforced on both sides, that matters a lot of difference in physical force based combat.

The cops do get training in some basic tactics from martial arts…most of which get them yelled at, because they don’t look nice. Because martial arts is using your body to harm or kill someone else when you’re not doing a show competition. It’s ugly.

David WS
David WS
Thursday, June 18, AD 2020 12:25pm

“They don’t do martial arts for subduing people, in no small part because martial arts are a poor tool for the situation.”
– Circular reasoning. Doesn’t prove the poor tool assertion.

“Because martial arts is using your body to harm or kill someone else when you’re not doing a show competition. It’s ugly.”
Hasty generalization. Jujitsu is actually a soft martial art, especially Brazilian Jujitsu, primarily used for sport with a primary focus on grappling.

Women can learn Brazilian Jujitsu as self defense, though I would much prefer if she were paired with a man. He handcuffs and she holds the gun. Now, I know that when someone attacks a police officer all bets are off, however I think police are way untrained in grappling and are too prone to reach for the gun.

John F. Kennedy
John F. Kennedy
Thursday, June 18, AD 2020 1:37pm

If only these two police officers, one of them very large, knew martial arts…
https://mobile.twitter.com/RealJamesWoods/status/1273392671705272321

David WS
David WS
Thursday, June 18, AD 2020 2:18pm

When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

Stephen E Dalton
Thursday, June 18, AD 2020 3:51pm

And you’re the one swinging the hammer!

Foxfier
Admin
Thursday, June 18, AD 2020 5:44pm

David WS-
I explained why it doesn’t work; it looks brutal, it requires constant and relatively high demand training, and it is very dependent on the size of the person using it.
Failure to accept your assumption that it would work is neither a fallacy, nor is it circular reasoning.
Circular reasoning would be either “because they do not use it, it is bad, and thus they do not use it” or “it is good, so they need to use it, and because it’s good any reasons they don’t use it are invalid.”

Hasty generalization.

False– I used a very limited example, which in addition is relevant to the discussion; you meanwhile have engaged in special pleading and attempted, repeatedly, to employ the fallacy fallacy, but failed to apply an accurate fallacy.

You are quite literally arguing that not only should cops be trained to physically beat criminals, but that they should re-arrange their policing practice around doing exactly that.
Because that’s…less bad than shooting someone who is trying to kill you?

It would make for a lot more dead cops, sure, and make it much more likely that there would be lots of videos of suspects beaten into the hospital. It would also increase the value of a gun to a criminal, since he could be reasonably sure that the police would not be in a position to use their weapon effectively until he got a free shot in.

Women can learn Brazilian Jujitsu as self defense

snorts Yeah. And if the trainer cares about his students living, he’ll also inform those ladies that it’s a matter of making the best of a bad situation. Not a thing to be desired, and definitely not one to be deliberately chosen. I know mine had seen more than enough students in the hospital, and while it’s better than the morgue, he’d much rather that the only guy hurt was the bad guy.

David WS
David WS
Thursday, June 18, AD 2020 7:55pm

Worse job in America, not properly trained, resort to your gun, and they blame you for it!

Foxfier
Admin
Friday, June 19, AD 2020 9:47am

Still waiting for you to actually make some sort of a case beyond appeal to your son, and inaccurately applied fallacies.

Dale Price
Dale Price
Friday, June 19, AD 2020 10:31am

The vastly-diminished urban police forces of 2025 are going to be glorified evidence technicians. For those who are still in the job, the danger of “getting on the 5 o’clock news” will have percolated through the culture so well that arrests will drop through the floor.

Historical evidence indicates that they will draw a hell of lot of chalk outlines, though.
https://www.deadlinedetroit.com/articles/25500/leduff_defund_the_police_detroit_did_that_now_children_are_dying

David WS
David WS
Saturday, June 20, AD 2020 4:22am

Foxfire,
First read up on the subject of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, it is not what you make it out to be.
Second, your statements are riddled with Straw Men: “ It would make for a lot more dead cops“ – no not being overpowered is good, “physical beating” -is not the same as grappling and subduing, “they should re-arrange their policing practice” – no if and when police grapple it’s better to be expert, “ snorts Yeah” – it is most taught as self defense.

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